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How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Accept The Shane O'Brien/Ryan Parent Trade

Today's surprising trade between Vancouver and Nashville makes for quite a transition on the Predators defense, especially when coupled with the assignment of Aaron Johnson to Milwaukee and the waiving of Alexander Sulzer. So what will Shane O'Brien bring to the Nashville defense?


Shane O`Brien

Defenseman / Nashville Predators

6-3

230

Aug 09, 1983


Follow after the jump as we look at the upside and downside from this deal...

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First, let's check out his scouting report:

Assets
  • Is an impressive specimen who uses his size effectively. Can intimidate the opposition, fight on occasion and generally play an in-your-face style.
Flaws
  • Struggles against quick forwards. Must avoid taking bad penalties that place his team in trouble. Doesn't have a ton of offensive ability.
Career Potential
  • Physical defenseman.

No surprise here, O'Brien will mostly have to be used in a 3rd-pair role in order to keep him away from guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews & Kane.

Shane O'Brien vs. Ryan Parent

Ultimately, this trade is a swap within the Top Six of Ryan Parent for Shane O'Brien, so how do they stack up in terms of some of the advanced stats from Behind the Net?

Ryan Parent Shane O'Brien
 Season GP 5-on-5 TOI/Game Relative Corsi Rel. Corsi QoC Pen. Take/60 GP 5-on-5 TOI/Game Relative Corsi Rel. Corsi QoC Pen. Take/60
 2009  48 12:17 -22.0 -.779 0.8 65 14:59 -3.1 +.011 1.3
 2008  31 15:03 -9.2 +.901 0.5 77 13:20 -3.3 -.162 2.1
 2007  22 13:12 -18.0 -.326 0.4 77 18:12 -10.2 +.269 1.2

This table warrants some explanation. For each of the last three seasons, we're comparing ice time along with three key metrics:

Relative Corsi - This represents the difference in Corsi rating (the balance of Total Shots For & Against) when a player is on the ice, compared to when he's on the bench. So, for example, last season while Ryan Parent was on the ice, the balance of Total Shots For & Against tipped negatively by 22 per 60 minutes of ice time, compared to when the Flyers were playing without Parent. This is an indicator of how a given player is contributing to the flow of a game relative to his teammates.

Rel Corsi QoC - A measure of the Quality of Competition each player faced, based on the Relative Corsi values for their opponents. So, for example, last season the average player which Parent faced had a Relative Corsi value of -.779. The higher the number, the tougher the average opponent.

Pen. Take/60 - The number of penalties taken per 60 minutes of 5-on-5 play.

What these numbers tell us: Over the last three seasons, Parent has struggled mightily to keep the play out of his own end, even though he faced relatively soft opposition in two of those years. O'Brien, on the other hand, took a significant step forward the last two seasons, putting up mildly negative numbers against closer-to-average competition. This suggests that he can at least hold his own in a 3rd-pair role.

The downside, however, are those penalty numbers. Prorated over the course of an 80-game campaign at 14 minutes of 5-on-5 a night, this would translate into roughly an extra 17 penalties taken by O'Brien compared to Parent.

So how do we balance these out? Well, the penalty numbers are pretty easy - each penalty is worth about 0.20 goals, when you combine the chance that the other team will score on their PP with the loss of offensive opportunity while you're killing a penalty. So 17 extra penalties times 0.20 gives you 3.4 goals. The exact figure isn't important, but 2-5 is fair enough to give an idea of the significance.

For the difference in Corsi performance, take a bit of a walk with me here. If O'Brien can put up a performance that's 10 Total Shots per 60 minutes better than Parent's, that's a pretty substantial difference over the course of a season. Using the same guideline of 14 minutes per game and 80 games, that nets out to a difference 186 Total Shots in Nashville's favor (remember, Total Shots includes Blocked & Missed Shots). Even at a scoring rate of 4%, that nets out to about 7.5 goals, or roughly twice as large a difference as the penalty issue.

What could undermine this judgment in favor of O'Brien is if Parent finally fulfills his potential and starts driving Shots For & Against in a positive manner, and of course stays healthy over the course of a season. This, then, looks like a classic "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" situation. O'Brien is more of a proven commodity as a 3rd-pair defenseman, while Parent still has to prove his worth there.

Concerns beyond the numbers

While the numbers may shake out in O'Brien's favor here, there is an off-ice history that can't be ignored, such as persistent issues in Vancouver related to his playing weight and tardiness for team meetings. Reading some of this stuff, he sounds more like a Tennessee Titan than a Nashville Predator.

Of course, on the plus side, it certainly seems like the honky tonks downtown should see an upturn in business...

I can understand somewhat taking Sergei Kostitsyn in as a potential turnaround story due to his offensive upside, but what's the rationale for bringing in guy without that potential, but who brings a background of discipline issues on and off the ice?

Shane O'Brien may end up posing the first significant test of Shea Weber's leadership as the new captain of the Predators. Perhaps Shea needs to take SOB out for a night on the town, hitting every bar up and down Broadway, but ending it by telling him, "have a fun time here in Nashville, but if you're caught out here the night before a game, we're going to have a problem."

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Hmmm… I don’t really know what to say. Wish we had done this BEFORE all the pre-season games…

EASports' NHL 11 doesn't suck; in fact, it's really damn good! Wait, what!?
Go Predators!!!

by Poiju on Oct 5, 2010 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Definitely seems like the better player...

on paper. Hopefully they can keep him straightened out and productive. Poile was pretty high on Parent too, so must really see something in SOB.

by DonBorvio on Oct 5, 2010 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Private exchange at the Nashville Sports Council luncheon

Hockey Hillbilly: Shane O’Brien?
Brent Peterson: Yep.
Hockey Hillbilly: That’s not a name known and loved in Nashville.
Brent Peterson: Or anywhere else. That’s one of the reasons we got him.

by Hockey Hillbilly on Oct 5, 2010 6:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Ha; fantastic. I don’t think he’s a dirty player (from what I’ve seen); but its always nice to have a guy who can a) play hockey and b) make some goon think twice about dumping Sullivan.

by Chris Burton on Oct 5, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

love it.

Hockey Hillbilly: That’s not a name known and loved in Nashville.
Brent Peterson: Or anywhere else. That’s one of the reasons we got him.

by HartnellsMop on Oct 5, 2010 6:30 PM EDT reply actions  

We are officially in the Twilight Zone...

Let’s just hope there’s an “ohhhhhh, NOW I get it moment” coming sometime soon.

by TitanPredBearFan on Oct 5, 2010 7:00 PM EDT reply actions  

I just think it’s an all-around good move. It is surprising, but only because Poile seemed so keen on Parent. But I never saw a reason to be optimistic about Parent. I’m sorry, but NOTHING in Parent’s career has shown that he can even be a satisfactory 6th D-man, and I didn’t see anything in his preseason here that would suggest otherwise.

As for O’Brien, his stats at least suggest that he’s an improvement. I can’t recall ever seeing him play, so that’s about all I can say. In regard to his off-ice issues… I don’t care. We’ll see what he does ON the ice.

"Get to the Choppa!"

by PredHead on Oct 5, 2010 7:57 PM EDT reply actions  

O'Brien

Is a physical d-man who is capable of 200 PIM in a season. As a Ranger fan I was holding out hope that the Rangers might scoop him up in a trade (our 6th/7th D man spot is kind of ‘up in the air’). O’Brien has good size and will take the body, he should be an interesting piece to add to the Predators blueline. Have a great season guys.

In Hank we trust.

by Dig Deep on Oct 5, 2010 8:00 PM EDT reply actions  

NY Rangers

That’s my Eastern team, good luck to you guys as well!

EASports' NHL 11 doesn't suck; in fact, it's really damn good! Wait, what!?
Go Predators!!!

by Poiju on Oct 5, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have always liked the Thrashers and the teams they put on the ice

I am a big Weber/Suter fan and Steve Sullivan is a long-time favorite.

In Hank we trust.

by Dig Deep on Oct 6, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Glad to see him go

As a Canucks fan, I cannot tell you how happy I am to see this guy gone. He is terrible. He tries to act tough, but never fights anyone of consequence and even when he does fight, he just wrestles. The Black Hawks made a fool out of him in the last two playoffs. He is a major liability and the worst part is he thinks he is a bit of a stud and always tries to do too much.

I don’t mind the Preds. I really like Barry Trotz. The only positive on your end is that you didn’t really give up anyone in this deal.

O’Brien has a reputation for playing physical, but that is all that it is. Too bad he didn’t get traded to the Rangers. Their fans are a lot like O’Brien. Think they are pretty smart, but the rest of the league just laughs at a) how terrible they are and b) how close they think they are to being contenders.

by Canucksfan1313 on Oct 5, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Whew!

That’s reassuring. Welcome, Shane O’Brien!

by Hockey Hillbilly on Oct 5, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right...

And I’m sure the Canucks think Hamhuis will solve their d-line problems. I hope you enjoy watching him repeatedly turn it over in your own zone next year.

Poile did pose some interesting points on the raido this afternoon (104.5). He mentioned that Shane O’Brien spent a good bit of time on the #2 D-line for Vancouver last year when they had injuries to top D-men. So to recap, he has more games in the NHL, more ice time, more quality competition and the threat of dropping the gloves…those are all key advantages that SOB (awesome nickname) has over Parent.

I liked getting Parent back as much as anyone, but I like getting a better D-man with a better NHL resume MUCH more.

by Frattaway on Oct 5, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then again...

…there is this.

EASports' NHL 11 doesn't suck; in fact, it's really damn good! Wait, what!?
Go Predators!!!

by Poiju on Oct 5, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Embed didn't work...

Try here → http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS6wL5Mr3Qg

EASports' NHL 11 doesn't suck; in fact, it's really damn good! Wait, what!?
Go Predators!!!

by Poiju on Oct 5, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that was more Sedin’s fault for being cute with the puck and SOB was just trying to recover and it got knocked from him.

by DonBorvio on Oct 6, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know,

just thought it was funny!

EASports' NHL 11 doesn't suck; in fact, it's really damn good! Wait, what!?
Go Predators!!!

by Poiju on Oct 6, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

“awesome nickname”

it is just too perfect for him.

Nucks Misconduct chief babe, now with a new Twitter username.
Keep your stick on the ice. Seriously, keep it on the ice, or you'll take another hooking penalty and put the Canucks back on the kill!

by missy on Oct 6, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

As a Canucks fan I disagree with what he just said. It’s a shame to see SOB go just because he was in the coaches doghouse. I’m sure he’ll play better than Alberts this year.

by marcness52 on Oct 6, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

agree with marcness

btw, this Canucksfan1313 just signed up on SBNation to leave this comment. doesn’t appear to even read Nucks Misconduct. just pointing out that he’s not one of ours….

Nucks Misconduct chief babe, now with a new Twitter username.
Keep your stick on the ice. Seriously, keep it on the ice, or you'll take another hooking penalty and put the Canucks back on the kill!

by missy on Oct 6, 2010 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing like making your first comment on SBNation a semi-negative one on an opposing team’s blog. Troll in the making I’m sure =P.

To our Nucks Misconduct friends, was there a noticeable difference in SOB’s last year and the one’s previous? I don’t mean numerically, but just from watching him?

EASports' NHL 11 doesn't suck; in fact, it's really damn good! Wait, what!?
Go Predators!!!

by Poiju on Oct 6, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was getting a bit more disciplined, on his way to becoming a decent defenceman.

Nucks Misconduct chief babe, now with a new Twitter username.
Keep your stick on the ice. Seriously, keep it on the ice, or you'll take another hooking penalty and put the Canucks back on the kill!

by missy on Oct 7, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was This Really A Trade By the Predators of O'Brien for Sulzer?

Maybe this is overthought but these moves may be all about upgrading Sulzer to O’Brien and allowing the Canucks to shed O’Brien’s $1.6 Million salary and Nashville to shed Andersson’s $675,000 salary.

Here goes: the Canucks want to offload O’Brien for both salary cap issues and he’s a pain in their @#$. So they waive him – but no one bites (the Preds because they don’t want to absorb the $1.6Million without eliminating the salary of one of their D men, the two likely candidates Parent and Sulzer, both on one way contract amounts). The Preds are willing to swap Sullzer for O’Brien to upgrade their 7th D position but the Canucks know they’ll waive Sulzer to their AHL affiliate and will likely have to eat his $700,000 salary as he’s unproven at the NHL level so its not likely he’ll be claimed. The Preds no longer need Andersson as he didn’t look any better than O’Reilly, Smithson or Kostitsyn (or Spaling or Thurreson, already in Milwaukee) and they don’t want to eat Andersson’s one way salary in Milwaukee. So the Canucks ask for Parent as its more likely he’ll be claimed. Nashville needs the same thing though with Andersson So Andersson and the prospect get tossed in. The assumption here is that Vancouver is happy with a $675,000 spend risk for an NHL potential forward (Andersson) and Nashville happy with a $700,000 spend risk for a D man.

So Vancouver and Nashville do the swap and the Preds, in preparation for claiming Parent on waivers, send Sulzer down to Milwaukee. Nashville takes the spend risk on Sulzer ($700k) that Vancouver did not want as they are most likely to use him; Vancouver takes the salary risk on Andersson ($675k)) as they are most likely to use him; and the Preds plan to pick Parent back up on waivers which is why they’ve shorted their D roster by one head count. This also explains some of the differential in the swap for an AHL prospect for Andersson as, if I understood the article on this site yesterday, the Preds will pay Vancouver abotu $100,000 for Parent on waivers.

The timing of Sulzer’s waiver is also interesting but would make sense if Nashville considered that Parent is actractive on waivers, they want him back, and so they put Sulzer out there at the same time to help improve their odds as someone wanting a D man would then be considering both Parent and Sulzer. And if both are taken, then Aaron Johnson comes up and Nashville sheds even more salary.

Who knows if the above is actually the case but would love comments of what folks think….

by keepellisingoal on Oct 5, 2010 11:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Not a bad theory...

But SLake has already kinda shot that down due to the chance that if the Preds pick Parent back up off of waivers he may then be ruled ineligible for this year because of circumvention of the salary cap.

by TitanPredBearFan on Oct 6, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

quick question....

I’m not as knowledgeable here so sorry for the question however is their a difference in how the salary cap rules work if Vancouver is allowed to bury Parent’s salary in their AHL affiliate versus Nashville (who has no salary cap issue at all) re-acquiring him? Is it the approx $100,000 waiver fee (ie does that reduce Vancouver’s cap)?

If this allowed Nashville to get under the cap (by trading Parent and then picking him up off waivers with a different salary) that I would understand but if Vancouver can bury his salary at the AHL level – the only way they can do this – then I’m wondering how that is different from another team (including the Preds) re-acquiring Parent.

by keepellisingoal on Oct 6, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be honest I’m a little iffy on the details…look on the hfboards, SLake spells it out in the O’Brien thread.

by TitanPredBearFan on Oct 6, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

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