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Nashville Predators extend losing streak to 4 in St. Louis

The Nashville Predators dropped their fourth-straight game 2-0 in St. Louis tonight, suffering their second shutout at the hands of Jaroslav Halak this season, despite putting 32 shots on net to the Blues' 26. The loss drops Nashville's record to 17-12-6 (with more overall losses than wins), while the offense has ground to a complete halt. Without four of their leading forwards tonight, the Preds' scoring drought has now brought them just three goals over the last four outings.

Follow after the jump for video highlights, advanced stats, and more...

Star-divide

The Preds host the Dallas Stars on Tuesday, December 28, so make sure to use our coupon code for discount Nashville Predators tickets

First, your video highlights (might have to wait a few minutes until they become available) and Predators vs Blues boxscore:

As for reaction...

  • Yikes, another steep angle soft goal given up by Pekka Rinne to open the scoring. It can demoralize a defense that strives to push puck carriers wide to have a shot like that go in. Outside of that one goal, however, he was outstanding.
  • The choir-boy St. Louis Blues made it through this one without taking a single penalty. This is the first time this season the Preds didn't get a single chance on the power play (not like that was likely to be a salvation). The only other time that's happened to the Preds since the Great Lockout was last year against Philadelphia.
  • Linus Klasen appeared to fit in alongside Marcel Goc and Sergei Kostitsyn, taking Martin Erat's place. He clearly wants to take advantage of the opportunity he's been given, but I really can't stand the way he plants his feet wide in the offensive zone when he tries to dangle the puck. Barry Trotz commented on that recently to Ads Roundtable.
  • In today's NHL, in which overtime/shootout losses count as "half a win", lots of teams look like winners because they're "above .500". After tonight, however, the Preds have lost more games (18) than they've won (17). That ain't good.
  • Joel Ward committed another one of those *facepalm* moments midway through the 3rd, leading an odd-man rush with a wide-open path to the net, and opting to make a lame, backhanded pass into the middle of the zone rather than take the shot. Somebody needs to change the terminology used by the team. Start calling shots "passes off the goalie" or something.
  • Seth raised a great question on the @Predfans Twitter group: "What 'coaching' or 'philosophy' change will create offense?" I think what frustrates some folks (like myself) is that players will lose ice time or get benched for turnovers or other perceived defensive shortcomings, while offensive blunders tend to get overlooked. While the coaches may say all the right things, perhaps their actions tell players that no matter what, just don't make a turnover, and that mindset leads to overly-conservative offensive play. That's my $0.02, what's yours?
  • Jerred Smithson had his moment also, getting a clear shot from about 25 feet out after a St. Louis turnover, but missing the net wildly.
  • By the way, has anyone told Ward that he's in a contract year?
  • They used to say that putting the Boston "B" on your chest added 15 pounds to a player on those tough teams from the 70's and 80's, and I think the same goes for Francis Bouillon when he dons the "A". The Cube was blasting everybody in sight.
  • Wade Belak played 6:59 tonight, the most ice time he's seen since January 21 of last season.

And for your advanced even-strength stats...

 Even Strength Individual Totals Team Totals While Player Is On Ice
 Player Pos EV TOI Shots Shts Blkd Missed Shts Blocks SOG For SOG Ag SOG +/- Tot SF Tot SA Corsi
 Sergei Kostitsyn L 17:49 1 0 0 0 10 5 +5 15 10 +5
 Marcel Goc C 16:49 5 0 1 0 11 3 +8 14 6 +8
 Cal O`Reilly C 16:24 2 2 1 1 8 12 -4 13 19 -6
 Linus Klasen L 16:21 1 0 0 0 11 3 +8 14 6 +8
 J.P. Dumont R 16:04 1 1 0 0 8 11 -3 13 16 -3
 Patric Hornqvist R 14:57 2 0 0 0 8 10 -2 13 14 -1
 Jordin Tootoo R 14:52 3 0 2 0 10 8 +2 16 16 0
 Nick Spaling C 14:20 2 1 3 1 8 7 +1 13 14 -1
 Colin Wilson C 14:06 2 0 0 1 7 8 -1 14 14 0
 Jerred Smithson R 13:34 2 1 1 0 5 4 +1 9 6 +3
 Joel Ward R 12:29 1 1 0 1 4 4 0 8 9 -1
 Wade Belak R 6:59 0 0 0 0 3 4 -1 3 6 -3
 Ryan Suter D 24:49 0 0 0 0 17 8 +9 26 13 +13
 Shea Weber D 23:31 6 1 2 0 14 8 +6 24 14 +10
 Francis Bouillon D 20:52 0 0 0 2 9 11 -2 12 22 -10
 Kevin Klein D 19:20 1 0 0 4 10 10 0 12 21 -9
 Shane O`Brien D 14:18 0 0 0 0 6 7 -1 11 9 +2
 Cody Franson D 13:10 2 0 0 1 6 8 -2 11 11 0
Poll
Who is your Predator of the Game?
Marcel Goc
4 votes
Linus Klasen
15 votes
Pekka Rinne
31 votes
Ryan Suter
3 votes
Shea Weber
12 votes

65 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 63 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Can't overlook...

After being benched in the third period last game, O’Reilly got bigger minutes tonight only to give it what I’ll describe as “not his best effort” chasing down Steen’s bank pass and allowing Backes to score an empty netter. No matter what we say here, Cal has to look his teammates and the coaching staff in the eyes after the game and I’m sure that the response won’t be too kind.

As for Dirk’s point, I can agree to an extent, but at the same time it’s where those poor decisions and turnovers occur that dictates things more than anything. Ward made a bad decision at the offensive end of the rink. He wasn’t out there in the final 90 seconds when we’re looking to score a goal. Joel’s ice time has seemed to fluctuate this season, but on a whole his game is becoming less and less of a factor as the season wears on. While I was reporting daily from training camp I noticed that Ward had stopped staying late after practice to do individual puck control work that honestly made him one of the toughest guys in the league to knock off the puck the past two years. I gave him the benefit of the doubt though based on his strong work ethic previously, but regret it now. Still haven’t seen him do it and honestly his game at both ends of the rink is becoming more and more of a footnote than a headline as the season wears on. Gotta wonder seriously if he doesn’t plan on pursuing his teaching career after this season, cause you know the Preds aren’t going to be offering him anywhere near his current contract this summer…

Overall though, I don’t buy it as a rule for Trotz and the team. I was surprised that Wilson tonight wasn’t on a higher line (I’d have gone with 33-16-27, 58-9-74 as my top-six), but the bottom line is that even though he was on a lower line with more north-south transition guys he still tried to do too much, too often with the puck and created far too many unnecessary turnovers. He’s done the same thing on higher lines trying to force an extra pass, etc and he’s had a ton of success when he’s just been put in positions where there are no options and he either just shoots off the pass or moves the puck quickly to start an attack. Wilson thinks too much on the ice, it is his downfall. Maybe dropping him down a couple lines was Trotz’s method of getting him to simplify his game. Don’t know, whatever it is, I hope he’s watching video with the coaches tomorrow…

As a team we have a smaller margin of error than others. Right now with injuries we have an even smaller margin of error than we normally do. Bottom line is that there are no excuses. Tonight’s lineup produced enough chances to win the game and at the same time despite allowing a goal, Pekka gave the Preds a chance to win. At some point it stops becoming a matter of the coaches saying something or doing something different and has to come down to the players performing on the ice. I believe we had our chances to win tonight, but failed to bear down at those times to seize the opportunity. Credit Halak and the Blues, they did what they needed to do tonight to win…

Predators Hockey: Live it, Love it...
Follow me on Twitter: @SLakePreds

by Seth Lake on Dec 26, 2010 10:45 PM EST reply actions  

I know there are technically “no excuses”, but really, how much can we expect to accomplish without Lombardi, Legwand, Erat, and Sullivan?

They’re pretty much the four best forwards on the team. We have trouble scoring with them due to not having a finisher, and without them, its a lost cause.

Agreed on Joel Ward, though, he looks lost – there’s no doubt in my mind he should be the scratch along with Spaling if Lombardi ever returns.

Not sure what to think of O’Reilly’s effort on Backes’ ENG, that was rather baffling. He just coasted. :(

by Chris Burton on Dec 26, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

The usual from SWFP...

…sometimes a mountain can be made out of a mole hill.

1. Lombardi does not exist. He is a figment of your imagination and we can’t ascribe offensive woes to his absence. Although you have to first be present to be absent……

2. We don’t miss Legwand. He has two goals this year. And both of those were in the first six games…after which, naturally, he disappeared. You can put Spaling in there to do the same thing for 1/9 the price.

3. It can’t be good for the offense for Sully and Erat to be out. Even though Sully has been weak on the puck this year, he is a solid playmaker from time to time, sos that hurts. And I thought Erat just started to got hot…that’s another loss.

4. When Belak plays, our offense goes into the abyss. Trotz (idiotically) starts to mix up the lines and I’ve never seen us play well when he’s doing a lot of line shifting. Ever.

And you’re right about Ward…he’s been very disappointing this year after having two very solid seasons with us. I wonder if he’s injured…..? Frankly, when the team is healthy, he should be the healthy scratch.

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 26, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

No excuses...

There is no way to argue that tonight’s lineup didn’t create enough offensive opportunities to pop just one goal into the net and get this game to overtime. Pekka gave the team a chance to win, but the team didn’t give him anything to work with. Tonight’s lineup was built primarily around strong goaltending and team defense due to the guys you listed being out of the lineup, but hockey is a game that by nature will give each team, no matter how outmatched, chances to score in any given game if they work hard.

Tonight the team worked hard, they got their chances, but they failed to capitalize. Unfortunately, I’m not going to take the easy way out and say that’s a result of the injuries. These guys are NHL players. Even Wade Belak is skilled enough to have carved out a career in the NHL and would school almost everyone down at the local rink when the puck is on his stick. Gotta really credit Jaroslav Halak and the Blues tonight. They executed the Preds tonight when all was said and done. Halak came up with some key saves when tested and Backes put two in the back of the net to propel the Blues to victory.

All that being said, if you want to look at the impact of the Preds injuries, I don’t think there’s any doubt we are a different team with any two of those four guys in the lineup.

Lombardi never really got started, so I’m not going to say anything about him really except to say that with him in the lineup on Opening Night our four centers favorably matched up against the rest of the league.

Legwand’s absence on top of Lombardi’s has really hampered the Preds ability to roll three scoring lines and has affected our scoring depth effectively putting a lot more pressure on our top-six. While Legwand doesn’t create offense on his own, he is very good in a supporting role whether it’s using his speed to create off the rush or by playing strong along the boards or in the slot to support the cycle. Legwand facilitates offense when he’s put with guys that can create. Spaling has played well in his recall to replace Legwand defensively, but Nick is a total non-entity at the offensive end of the rink and even Poile and Trotz said last week to the Ads Roundtable blog that if it wasn’t for the injuries and his defensive play, he’d be back in Milwaukee to try to stimulate his offensive game.

Erat has played injured for most of this year and after finally getting healthy and clicking with Goc and Kostitsyn he’s injured again. I thought Klasen did a good job filling in for him tonight, but without any other consistent offensive threat it was easy for STL to focus in on that line and shut them down. Hopefully Erat is back on Tuesday, which might allow Klasen to move to another offensive line and try to stimulate some type of secondary scoring threat.
 
Lastly, I believe Sullivan has been injured since sometime after that SJ game two weeks ago. His play dropped off tremendously after that, he was losing races to the puck, doing the obligatory “ole” stick wave as guys skated by him, and had lost a lot of the drive he shows at the offensive end of the rink. Clearly he overdid whatever was ailing him vs. Ottawa when he left in the third period (lower body – hamstring/groin/??? – you choose) and needs to honestly stay out until he is healthy again because he was totally ineffective in his last couple games. Since Sullivan was injured, O’Reilly has suffered. Cal got benched in the third vs. Ottawa after Sully went to the locker room, but was a total non-entity before that. Sullivan requested Cal as his center and Cal stepped up to the plate, but without him there to help create offense, it is now on Cal’s shoulders to prove himself again as an NHL player. Everyone has these ups and downs while they are trying to establish themselves, but I think Sullivan’s absence and injury have directly impacted Cal’s performance more than most think…

Hopefully Legwand and Erat are back on Tuesday night vs. Dallas. Legwand has missed a lot of time now and hasn’t had much time to practice with the team, so I’d suspect he’ll be slotted in more of a defensive role with limited ice time to begin with O’Reilly and Goc still centering the top two lines. Unless he really impressed Trotz, Klasen will likely be out with Erat’s return too.

Pending Erat and Legwand returning, maybe we see something like this vs. Dallas:

Wilson – O’Reilly – Hornqvist
Kostitsyn – Goc – Erat
Spaling – Smithson – Ward
Dumont – Legwand – Tootoo

As always, I strongly disagree with SWFP, but we’ve agreed to disagree…so I’ll leave it at that…

Predators Hockey: Live it, Love it...
Follow me on Twitter: @SLakePreds

by Seth Lake on Dec 26, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm at home in upstate NY for the holidays so I haven't seen the Ottawa or tonight's game.

But I’ve seen enough games over the past two years to see that when Trotz puts Belak in the game, he only plays him for 2-5 minutes per game, which leads to line juggling, which leads to a lack of chemistry, which leads to few goals. And its not coincidental IMO that we’re always “unlucky” when this situation rears its ugly head. What can be done? I would keep Belak benched, bring up one or two guys, plug them in and see what happens. But that’s neither here nor there and I"m not saying it’d work or that I’m right and Trotz is wrong.

I agree about Lombardi. I wish he was playing….he’s ISNOTT’s replacementt and he has (a rumored) a dynamic game of speed and skill that would be perfect for our system. But he doesn’t exist. That simple. And to bump O’reilly or Goc down to the third center would be a huge boost to the offense and would definitely lead to more offense. But we’ve been good without him all year so that can’t be used as an excuse.

I believe that Sully makes most people better when he plays. Is he weak on the puck? Yes. But I do believe that he’s been a catalyst for O’reilly and it definitely hurts us for him to be out of the lineup.

And I’ll get this out of the way once and for all: I don’t think Leggy isn’t an NHL player. He does have some offensive skill, just not that much. And he would be a great 4th line center…..great! My one beef with the guy is that 1. he’s an OK defensive center, but he’s not great. And Spaling can do just about everything he can…although I agree that he doesn’t have Legwand’s offensive ability (which isn’t that much). And 2. that for his price tag, he’s nowhere near worth that kind of money. That’s why we need to get rid of him. We’re strapped for cash, and HE"S NOT WORTH THE MONEY HE"S PAID!!! If he was a 20 goal guy, he’d be worth it…but he’s not. And that’s why I say that Spaling can do everything he can do….only better (e.g., penalty kill) and at a bargain basement price where we could sign somebody who can SCORE. And he got signed for that kind of money right when the ownership issues were going on, and we signed him and Erat, in my opinion, to show franchise stability. And this contract was a mistake.

And your lines look pretty good. Spaling, Smithson and Ward could be a good checking line, and I will acknowledge that Legwand and Dumont have shown chemistry in the past, so here’s his opportunity to shine :)

And the goaltending has been nothing short of spectacular this season…no beefs with you there.

See? We don’t disagree as much as you think…….

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 27, 2010 2:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Ward

should not be playing on anyones line except the scratch line Belak-Ward-Sulzer. I say keep Klasen. Let him get some NHL time and get comfortable and see what he can do if anything. What have we got to lose? You can’t get fewer goals than zero

by Creeping Death on Dec 27, 2010 2:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Spot on with the criticism of Ward

I used to think that he was the hardest worker on the team and near impossible to knock off the puck. In seasons past I would give him a 75% chance to win the puck, even if he was a step behind the opposing player. But that isn’t there at all this year. He really has become invisible in my eyes. It’s too bad because he used to be the epitome of Predator hockey, working harder than others and as a result creating sustained time in the offensive zone.

by jerseypredsfan on Dec 26, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

Ward, for a good while, was the prototypical Predator – now its Spaling, with a lot less scoring ability. Spaling never gives up on a play.

by Chris Burton on Dec 26, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Very Offensive

3 goals in 4 games – simply awful is being too kind. Since we don’t know the extent of injuries to Erat, Sullivan and still Legwand let’s assume tonight’s lineup goes up against Dallas on Tuesday night. Do they even have a remote chance of scoring?
Not much scoring in MIlwaukee and considering the Preds won’t add payroll things are looking pretty bad right now. BTW it’s pretty sad to see Dumont game in game out look clueless out there with his 4.5 million dollar contract. Playoff positioning is slip sliding away!

by virgiltruck on Dec 26, 2010 10:58 PM EST reply actions  

Sounds like Erat and Legwand at least will play on Tuesday.

by Chris Burton on Dec 26, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Good, dumb and dumber (Leggy and Dumont) will be on the ice!

I like your comment about Dumont, but it applies to Legwand even more.

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 26, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I have two main pet peeves with the Predators fan base as a whole (of which I am a part, of course):

1. Panicking when the play on the ice gets even remotely poor. We almost lost our team, guys, this too shall pass.

2. Fans highly _under_valuing David Legwand. Don’t make me write a post about this, y’all.

Spals to the wall.

by Chris Burton on Dec 26, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm right there with you...

If you need someone to co-author that post…I’d be up for the gig!

Predators Hockey: Live it, Love it...
Follow me on Twitter: @SLakePreds

by Seth Lake on Dec 26, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

rec

If I could rec from my phone I would. But I’ll have to settle for this

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 27, 2010 12:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Rats!

Does this mean we’re not in agreement anymore?

LOL!

You’re a good fella flyalder, you’re just a little near sighted :)

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 27, 2010 2:21 AM EST up reply actions  

well

You seem to think it is legwands fault that he gets paid what he does.
And you seem to fail to see that legwand was top 6 in offense among forwards last year. While he spent all year playing with the offesive superstars of Smithson and Ward. You also don’t seem to notice that when legwand gets even a little offensive help, i.e. Dumont, he becomes much more offensively dominant.

So, who is the near sighted one?

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 27, 2010 9:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It's uncanny, really...

Go back and read the postings during the points streak, and compare them to the doom and gloom that crops back up after even two consecutive losses (related to #1 above).

And regarding #2, you should write it. Look at all the spirited debate in the post about Klein!

by LuvthePreds on Dec 27, 2010 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, by all means go look at that Klein post everyone!

by cisar on Dec 28, 2010 1:53 AM EST up reply actions  

By all means...

…you three post ANYTHING to justify why Legwand is worth $4.5 million. That should be comical. I don’t mind him being on the team, and playing, but he’s only worth around $1.5 a year. And this ain’t a “losing streak rant,” Cause he’s been out for the good and the bad streaks. It’s fact. Oh, and the good streak where he was out was a looooot longer than the bad one we’re going through right now.

I like Dumont and wish he’d get more TOI. And I like Dirk’s $0.02. But it’s always you three who come to Legwand’s defense. Three dudes who love the Preds almost as much as me, but also have a blinding man crush on Leggy (tongue in cheek boys) :)

Proof is in the pudding. We do fine without him. And if I was a losing streak panicker, then I’d be wanting him back ASAP. But I don’t. Frankly, like I said earlier, I think the rash of injuries has led to Belak playing too often, and that also leads to too much juggling of the lines. When we were kicking ass, the lines were set for the most part. With Belak in there, you see Wilson playing with Smithson and Ward every other shift, and you see HornQ playing with Tootoo and and and and and Lunkmark-ish minor leaguers (had to say that). And when you put scoring talent with non-scorers, the result is 3 goals in 4 games…give or take. We need to get healthy so our lines can get back to working the way they need to. We don’t have enough talent to make up for lack of chemistry generated by line shuffling.

And you’ll note that I’m off the Fire Trotz bandwagon for this stuff. Even though he’s not a good coach IMO, this isn’t his fault so I’m not going there.

And Leggy can sit his butt in the minors or the clubhouse as a healthy scratch cause Spaling is every bit as good as he is!

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 27, 2010 1:49 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

great random contract evaluation
but he’s only worth around $1.5 a year

Admit that number is based on nothing.

by Sam Page on Dec 27, 2010 3:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I admit it!

It’s based on his relative value to the team in my opinion.

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 27, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Legwand

does have some value. He is so worth 4.5 million dollars…. spread out over 4 or 5 years maybe. Definitely not worth it per year. The guys will get things going. We for sure need a scorer though

by Creeping Death on Dec 27, 2010 3:36 AM EST up reply actions  

No room for error...

The main problem with the Preds is there is no room for error and unfortunately, no one is perfect. Pekka let in one weak goal and the game was over. It is really frustrating when your goalie and defense is as good as ours and we can’t win with more consistency.

There’s no doom and gloom here. It is about putting up wins consistently. Lose one, but don’t lose back to back. Definitely don’t lose four in a row.

On the matter of Joel Ward: You gotta be kidding me? Who do you think Joel Ward is? He is a grinder. He is Vern Fiddler, he is Scot Nichol. Give me a break. He was undrafted. He didn’t play his first NHL game until he was 27. What did you expect out of him long term? He will be gone next year and replaced by the next grinder. Be happy with what you got out of him. I can’t even believe people are talking about Joel Ward. You act like he is disappointing like Ilya Kovalchuk. In fact, Ward only has 10 less points than Ilya Kovalchuk. What do you think about that? To be honest, there have been several games where I thought the Smithson Ward line was the best line on the ice for us. That alone is ridiculous and should never ever ever happen. We got bigger problems than Joel Ward.

by 29thWard on Dec 27, 2010 4:01 AM EST reply actions  

Fiddler he ain't

Vern Fiddler never took a shift off in a Preds sweater. There was never a time anyone questioned Fiddler’s effort. As much as I hated Nichol, his effort was more consistent than Ward’s has been since he signed that contract after his first season in Nashville.

by wrandsw on Dec 27, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

On the matter of David Legwand

What you Legwand supporters fail to understand is that no one argues that David Legwand is an above average hockey player. We are saying he has one of the worst contracts in the NHL. David Poile feels the exact same away. Every off season we have to hear Poile dish out these thinly veiled criticisms of certain players. He never mentions names, but we all know who he is talking about. He is talking about Erat, Dumont and Legwand.

We got duped/had unfortunate luck, I don’t know. We didn’t realize the effect playing with Paul Kariya had on Legwand and Erat. Poile really thought those guys would be our top line scorers for years to come. They have been anything but.

I use to be really resentful towards Legwand, but finally got over it. I use to roll my eyes every time he turned the puck over on offense or failed to get a solid shot on net. I just accept him for what he is now, which is a glorified grinder. At least he plays solid defense, even if he can’t win a face off.

by 29thWard on Dec 27, 2010 4:28 AM EST reply actions  

You’re on the right track here. When people get upset at what Legwand does or does not provide, they’re failing to realize what his role is.

Yep, he’s overpaid for his duties, but at the same time, he fills the role very well.

Spals to the wall.

by Chris Burton on Dec 27, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the fact that he’s so immensely overpaid for his ‘role’ is why people crack on Legwand. He was having a good season coming off of a darn good playoff series before he got hurt, but no matter how great he is as a defensive forward it will never justify the money he’s being paid. I also happen to agree that Spaling mitigates any need for Legwand’s presence on the roster. He does the same thing, is just as good, if not better, and is a lot less expensive.

by Predaceous on Dec 27, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

He's overpaid...

…that’s all I’ve ever said Chris. You can throw Spaling in there and the team doesn’t miss a beat. So he doesn’t fill the role very well…he’s a dude that’s overpaid on a team that’s strapped for cash. In that regard, he brings the team down and offers very little.

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 27, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

False. The team misses Legwand greatly.

Spals to the wall.

by Chris Burton on Dec 27, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

How?

Chris,

I’m not trying to be contrary, and prior to Spaling being on the roster I might even have agreed with you, but given that Spaling is playing so well in Legwand’s absence, how do we miss Legwand on the roster. I’d really like an honest debate about this because right now I’m with SWfP on this one.

I don’t know what Legwand brings to the table that Spaling doesn’t other than offensive ‘potential’ which is rarely realized. Spaling is also much more agressive on the penalty kill and has created some PK scoring chances. Something I can’t honestly say I’ve seen from Legwand.

I’m not saying I want to get rid of the guy, I do think he’s a valuable player, but not as valuable as he once was now that Spaling is on the roster. I also don’t believe his play justifies his contract. In fact, Smithson is just as reliable and never gets the kudos that Legwand does. His contract is much more in line with what I feel Legwand should be making.

by Predaceous on Dec 27, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Legwand can take on the other team’s top lines and still put up mediocre offensive numbers, freeing up the other Nashville lines for matchups against lesser opponents. Right now, O’Reilly & Goc are getting the tough minutes, and their scoring has pretty much dried up as a result.

Spaling’s been great on the PK, but come on, people. 1 goal and 1 assist in 28 games. Even Leggy’s disappointing numbers so far are 6 times greater on a point-per-game basis. Spaling is a 4th-line kid still working his way into the league, whereas Legwand can compete with Toews, Datsyuk & Thornton.

When Leggy returns, you may not see the benefit in his numbers, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see O’Reilly & Goc start producing again.

On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Preds (be sure to check out my discount offer on Nashville Predators tickets). Catch me on Twitter at @Forechecker, or join our legions on Facebook at Facebook.com/OnTheForecheck.

by Dirk Hoag on Dec 27, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

…what he said.

Spals to the wall.

by Chris Burton on Dec 27, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

What he said. Leggy provides down-ticket success.

by cisar on Dec 28, 2010 2:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think you can factor in any part of Legwand’s game without acknowledging his contract. His offensive numbers may be better, but he’s being paid a ton more for that mediocre offense, and as SWfP pointed out, that contract is a burden on this team. Who might we be able to afford that CAN produce offensively if not for contracts like Legwand’s?

Not to mention that our PK is 10 times better with Spaling. I don’t think the horrific numbers without Spaling and the stellar numbers with him on the PK are a coincidence, especially considering he was being touted as a PK specialist all along. So Spaling’s PK skills pretty much negate Legwand’s offensive production for me.

by Predaceous on Dec 27, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think you can factor in any part of Legwand’s game without acknowledging his contract.

Sure you can.

Is he overpaid? Yeah, but that’s irrelevant to the question of how you assemble a lineup once guys get healthy.

And while I’m not dogging Spaling here, it’s worth mentioning that the Goals Against rate on the PK is actually lower for Legwand than Spaling so far.

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by Dirk Hoag on Dec 27, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Back to my argument about what Poile expected and wanted out of Legwand and Erat.

What do San Jose, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Calgary, Chicago, Washington, New Jersey, Vancouver, Anaheim all have in common? They have a top line of legitimate play makers and scorers, and they have all made it past the 1st round of the playoffs. What have we failed to do? Make it past the 1st round of the playoffs. Poile expected Erat and Legwand to lead the team in goals and points. He signed Leggy after the 06-07 season, the one where he led our team in goals scored. These guys not continuing their production has been a major factor of our inability to make it anywhere. They have failed thus far. Our top line consists of Steve Sullivan, O’reilly, Hornqvist and sometimes Wilson. When Poile signed Erat and Leggy to those contracts he did not think that the top line would consist of those guys listed.

 They were suppose to be our top line of the future and we have failed to recover offensively ever since.

Also, Radulov, but we won’t go there.

by 29thWard on Dec 27, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Calgary? All they have is Jarome Iginla and a poo poo platter.

Spals to the wall.

by Chris Burton on Dec 28, 2010 7:35 AM EST up reply actions  

So, at least you've now admitted that Leggy's offensive numbers are "mediocre"

I’ll take that for now. All I know is that our PK with Legwand as the checking center was near last in the NHL. Since he’s been injured, we’ve vaulted close to the top of the NHL ranks. And historically we have a losing record against Toews, Datsyuk and Thornton, so I"m not sure what that point was about. All I hear about Legwand are the “je ne sais croix” about his game. You can’t put a finger on it, and it doesn’t show up on the stat sheet, but ……….

Just like you say, fact is, Leggy is a 4th line kid still working his way up to being a credible two way center that the fan base wants him to be. Except he ain’t a kid, which is why we oughta bench him in favor of the kid who kills penalties at an elite level in the league, unlike Leggy!

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 27, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

je ne sais croix

You don’t know cross?
All you hear about Legwand is the “I don’t know cross” about his game?
Hehe.

by cisar on Dec 28, 2010 2:05 AM EST up reply actions  

quoi. It literally means “I don’t know what”, like “He has a certain ‘I don’t know what’ about his game”. Kind of means you can’t put your finger on it.

by cisar on Dec 28, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL!

I know what it means and I used it in the right context!

I just butchered the spelling…LOL!

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 28, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Where the blame really lies

Dirk, I’m ahgast at the mild critizism of the goal by Rinne. You act like you never seen a game before. You got give it to the scorer on that goal. There was nothing Rinne could have done unless he knew it was coming. On Smithson chance he had nobody in front of him and he could have made a charge to the net but this team doesn’t know and don’t have the skill or told not to. We have guys like Tootoo and Smithson who think they are Gretzky and do drop passes with no skill and get away with this. But Dumont misses a defensive play and he’s austrosized. I think everyone is so sniffing up Trotz that they can’t see that a player like Klaus has some offensive skills but of given a choice between him and Spaling who going to stay of course Spaling. Trotz doesn’t like offensive players because he doesn’t know how to coach them. I know Trotz has a lifetime contract with Poile and there’s no way he’s the problem…so asking for another coach is really asking too much. You have to ask yourself when Santorelli can get ice time with the Panthers and has shown some knack to put the puck in the net and O’Reilly development because he’s now getting ice time and regression of Wilson. I’m really wondering if Trotz can really develop offensive talent. I start to wonder if he can develop any talent. Klein has taken a step backwards and Weber and Suter’s game looks lethargic. But Barry is the coach and as long as we are competitive that onlly think that matters. How many loses will it take for Trotz to go?

by roseyc on Dec 27, 2010 9:07 AM EST reply actions  

Come on, it was a great shot from Backes, but Rinne, as big as he is, needs to have that corner covered.

I’d like to address the rest of your comment, but I’m not sure its worth the time if you really, honestly think Suter has been lethargic. For my money, he’s the best player on the team right now and would get my vote for 1st half MVP.

Spals to the wall.

by Chris Burton on Dec 27, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree about Suter...

…he is our best D man right now. And DEFENSIVELY he’s been our best defenseman for the past couple of years. So, I’m gonna ask a question, and this is not additional “hate mongering” by SWFP, but, Weber is a RFA after this year and Suter is a UFA after next year. They’re both gonna cost $5 million plus (at the very least). In my humblest opinion, we should not sign two defensemen for 10-12 million per year. Do you think we should spend that much on those two? If not, who do you think should go? I think we should trade Weber for a king’s ransom. A shut down defenseman and two scoring forwards. Or something like that. He’s my favorite player, hence the name. But I think Suter is the better Dman and while Weber is NOT expendable, he’s also not affordable. Wadda ya think?

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 27, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Suter proved his value...

…when he was injured. I believe he is a better all around player and makes the team better. But Weber’s slapper is lethal.

Given our inept offense year-after-year, and our ability to develop D-men, there is merit to SWFP’s idea to trade Weber for a King’s ransom (how about Kopitar and Doughty…lol).

by Griz-ATL on Dec 27, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Weber’s shot is lethal only on the rare occasion it’s on goal. In my mind that is not justification for paying him any more than he makes now. He’s going to get a ridiculous offer sheet and the club would be crazy to match it. Let him walk and use the cash to retain Suter and bring in some offense.

by shoot the puck on Dec 27, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

And BTW...

…he’s a restricted free agent, meaning that if somebody DOES sign him, they have to give us their next three first round picks.

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 27, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know for sure

But I thought the compensation for signing someone to an offer sheet was based on the price of the contract. In reality the Preds would match a low offer sheet, so the big money that the Preds would walk away from would bring back at least 3 1st round picks if not 4.

by wrandsw on Dec 27, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry

Should have read “compensation for LOSING someone to offer sheet”

by wrandsw on Dec 27, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

I’m with you on this, with the exception of the Rinne comment on the goal. He should have that covered. I believe thats goal tending 101 to cover the post on the strong side rush, and count on the D to have your backside covered. but i’m no Mitch Korn, or Corn as it were.

Leggy is overpaid. period. He is a good 3rd or 4th line ginder as others have described, and skates his A@# off. His O is lacking. Dumont is old, and a step behind everyone else on the ice, with great setup ability.

In terms of the coaching, You are right, Trotz doesn’t know how to let offensive players flourish. You named them above so i won’t rehash that.

Also, Suter and Weber are the best players on the ice for us at any given time. I would not ever describe Suter as lethargic personally.

by dolphinfantn on Dec 27, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Dumont misses a defensive play and he’s austrosized

Dumont misses a play and he is Crocodile Dundee?
That’s not a knife…This is a knife!

by cisar on Dec 28, 2010 2:08 AM EST up reply actions  

My $0.02

Weber should not be re-signed at the expense of letting Suter walk.

Glad others have seen the light with Ward. All we heard coming out of camp was Ward was hurt last year and that he is finally healthy which will lead to him playing like he did in his 1st year here. Well that surely hasn’t happened.

I am not a gloom and doom guy. It does get frustrating at times to ride the roller coaster of being a Preds fan.

Finally and my main point. If Legwand plays tomorrow night it should be at wing and not in a shutdown role. I hope Trotz gives the guy a chance to get his legs under him. If you go back and look at the TOI when Legs was out and we were 8-1-1, all of our forwards (other than Belak) were at least near 10 mins. We were rolling 4 lines and Trotz’s matching lines mindset was not as drastic. We have very few defensively irresponsible forwards (Sully being injured makes it even less). Just roll the lines Barry.
My hopes for the lines tomorrow night assuming Erat and Legs play are:

Dumont – O’Reilly – Hornqvist
Kostitsyn – Goc – Erat
Legwand – Wilson – Klasen
Spaling – Smithson – Tootoo

yes I understand that means a roster move has to be made, but you have a couple of options. 1) Send Sulzer down to play @ Milwaukee (allows him to play Tuesday and Wednesday nights, if no injuries occur he can play in Peoria Friday night as well). 2) Place Sully on IR (if his injury is bad enough that he had to see a specialist in St. Louis then it probably warrants going on IR).

by wrandsw on Dec 27, 2010 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t blame Ward for the lack of goal production. He’s been placed on lines that are meant to defend rather than score, however, where I do fault him is his effort (or lack thereof) this year. He is, without a doubt, the Predator that I am the most disappointed in this year. If he does nothing else he should always be out there skating hard and competing hard for control of the puck.

The hard working Ward from two years ago is a guy I want on our team. This Ward can take a walk after the season as far as I’m concerned.

by Predaceous on Dec 27, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Linas showed some skill.

He didn’t make the score sheet but maybe should have a couple of times. He has pretty soft hands. I like his game so far up here. Hopefully we can get him to draw some penalties and get on the PP. He thrives on it. And most of our goals lately seem to be on the PP.

by preds4ever on Dec 27, 2010 8:39 PM EST reply actions  

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