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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

Predators blow two goal lead; lose 3-2 in overtime to Thrashers

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Despite earning a point, the Nashville Predators saw both their 3 game winning streak and consecutive penalties killed streak go by the wayside tonight in a 3-2 overtime loss to the Atlanta Thrashers. The even strength offense has certainly looked better, but there are a number of defensive errors that are cause for concern and with Pekka Rinne out, the team simply can't afford those mistakes.

Colin Wilson and Steve Sullivan scored for Nashville, while Jim Slater, Andrew Ladd, and Zach Bogosian got the tallies for Atlanta. Follow after the jump for video highlights, reaction, and advanced stats.

Star-divide

First, the video (may have to until an hour or so post-game):


Ten thoughts on tonight's game:

  • For all the talk about the key matchup in tonight's game being between the Thrashers NHL-leading power play and the Predators' stellar penalty kill, most of the damage was done at even strength. The team seems to be jelling offensively, and its showing on the scoreboard as both Colin Wilson and Steve Sullivan scored on gorgeous feeds from Sergei Kostitsyn and Wilson, respectively.
  • When the Predators went on the power play late in the 1st period, Shea Weber was high sticked by Andrew Ladd, and exited the ice bleeding badly. He did not return until during the 2nd period, and according to Tennessean beat writer Josh Cooper, received stitches to his lip.
  • Anders Lindback can't be faulted on Atlanta's second period marker - Jim Slater cleanly beat Jerred Smithson on the faceoff, and Tobias Enstrom sent a rocket towards the net which Slater deflected beautifully into the net. Lindback had no chance.
  • Since he's very often the target of our ire, I think it's only fair to give Kevin Klein his due. Not only did his assist tonight give him a three game point streak, his defensive play has been much improved since he sat out the game against Minnesota with an "illness", and it was good to see him stick up for Anders Lindback after Evander Kane ran into him after the whistle. Needless to say, I had this bullet written up before the game ended. Moving on, then...
  • Faceoff circle failures really hurt Nashville tonight, particularly on Andrew Ladd's 3rd period power play goal. Rich Peverley won the draw easily, which allowed Dustin Byfuglien to get an unmolested shot on goal. Lindback allowed a big rebound, and Ladd easily put it in the net. Win that draw, and there's a good chance the Preds kill off the rest of the penalty. 
  • It's going to be popular to pin this loss on Kevin Klein, and I'm not going to stop you from doing so, because his perfect storm of mistakes on Bogosian's goal was almost awe-inspiring. However, there is no excuse for the Predators to allow Atlanta back in the game after leading 2-0 in the second period. As much as the team has come together at one end of the rink, its gotten away from "Predators hockey" at the other, and at the end of the day that's not a trade I'm willing to make.
  • Directly related to that, Nashville was outshot 37-29 tonight. The Predators can't play like that with Pekka Rinne in goal, much less Anders Lindback. Lindback, to his credit, played well enough to win, but the team in front of him failed to come through. Again.
  • I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Thrashers goalie Ondrej Pavelec, who at times seemed impenetrable. Two times he robbed Nashville - once, stopping Nick Spaling from scoring his first career NHL goal when he brought his glove all the way across his body to close an open net; twice, when he slid across to deny Joel Ward what looked to be a sure shorthanded marker.
  • If anyone can explain to me what Kevin Klein was trying to do on the game's final goal, I'd appreciate it. He dropped his stick in the middle of the ice, causing him to lose his man. The puck squirted over to the boards, where Klein tried to kick it soccer-style down the ice. The problem? He missed. Completely. Ben Eager sent a pass to Bogosian, and that was that.
  • It may be hard to keep your chin up after this one, but Nashville has earned 8 out of a possible 10 points in their last five games, and head now to Detroit to take on the Red Wings. The team isn't mired in a slump, but another effort such as tonight's will result in embarrassment at Joe Louis Arena.

Advanced stats:

 Even Strength Individual Totals Team Totals While Player Is On Ice
 Player Pos EV TOI Shots Shts Blkd Missed Shts Blocks SOG For SOG Ag SOG +/- Tot SF Tot SA Corsi
 Marcel Goc C 17:36 0 0 0 0 4 12 -8 8 18 -10
 Martin Erat R 17:18 0 0 1 0 5 14 -9 8 20 -12
 Cal O`Reilly C 15:31 2 1 0 0 12 6 +6 18 13 +5
 Sergei Kostitsyn L 15:18 1 0 0 0 5 10 -5 8 16 -8
 Steve Sullivan L 15:05 2 1 2 0 10 6 +4 16 13 +3
 Colin Wilson C 14:12 2 1 0 1 10 6 +4 17 13 +4
 Jerred Smithson R 12:45 1 0 1 0 3 8 -5 6 15 -9
 Nick Spaling C 12:29 0 0 0 0 6 8 -2 7 11 -4
 Joel Ward R 12:16 1 1 0 1 3 8 -5 8 15 -7
 Patric Hornqvist R 10:58 3 0 0 0 7 3 +4 9 4 +5
 Jordin Tootoo R 8:59 0 1 0 0 3 3 0 8 8 0
 J.P. Dumont R 8:24 1 0 0 0 6 2 +4 7 3 +4
 Ryan Suter D 24:37 5 3 0 1 16 8 +8 25 13 +12
 Kevin Klein D 20:25 0 1 0 1 6 17 -11 8 23 -15
 Francis Bouillon D 20:12 1 0 0 3 7 17 -10 10 27 -17
 Shea Weber D 17:21 2 1 1 2 10 5 +5 17 10 +7
 Shane O'Brien D 14:04 2 0 0 1 6 8 -2 10 17 -7
 Cody Franson D 11:59 2 0 0 1 5 7 -2 10 14 -4

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Even with the OT loss

I still love watching this team. I cannot wait to renew my tickets!

by ablairnash on Dec 6, 2010 10:21 PM EST reply actions  

IM GLAD KLEIN MISSED

cause i didnt see him kick and was wondering why he didnt kick the puck forward and then either get a stick or get off the ice. he stood frozen for what seemed like an eternity. and i dont care how many points weve gathered lately, we still lost a game we shouldnt have lost even if the thrashers are playing good hockey of late. another multi goal lead coughed up. we used to nearly never do that.

by predswilrule on Dec 6, 2010 10:26 PM EST reply actions  

final goal

yeah Klien could have made a multitude of other decisions, not that many of them wouldn’t have also ended in a turnover, but that doesn’t exonerate all the other preds on the ice for their mistakes that led to that goal.

Klien is an easy scapegoat here, but he isn’t the only one to blame.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 6, 2010 10:30 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Right, but Eager never gets that puck to send to Bogo if Klein doesn’t whiff.

by Chris Burton on Dec 6, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

He had TWO Prilosec moments in that game.

But Suter saved the first one, almost a goal on the empty net on the delayed penalty in the first.

by DonBorvio on Dec 6, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

If Anyone has Poile's Ear....

we really need another 7th round pick in next summer’s draft. that would be a neat swap for Mr. Klein…..

that would also save us $750,000 (over a Milwaukee D man called up to replace Klein) and, combined with the insurance savings from Lombardi, could be used to pick up another scoring winger.

by keepellisingoal on Dec 6, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree...

…we got all these super D prospects…Josi, Blum, Ellis, etc. and not one of them could possibly be as prone to making inexplicably boneheaded plays that Klein seems to make. He has gotten better for sure, but he just screws up soooo often. I was sick of it last year and thought we should’ve made a change. Furthermore, I remember how bad Hamhuis was in 06-07…he was just as bad if you can believe that…but he matured and so I expect the same thing with Klein.

But how long can you wait?

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 7, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

and...

bogo isn’t completely open if Wilson doesn’t leave his side of the ice because he is too focused on the puck.
Klien has an easy out if Weber stays by the bench after coming on the ice instead of skating deep into the dzone, and too far away for a kick
Ward also could have supported Klien if he had gotten up faster.

a few games ago the coaches and pete and terry were all about puck support. well Klien had none on that play, everyone on our team just stood around and looked at him. A lack of TEAM defensive effort caused that goal. I just wish we could know the communication that happened on the ice, if any.

this could be a great goal for one of your breakdowns.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 6, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I’ll take a look at it tomorrow, and you’re probably right, simply because almost all goals against are team efforts. Like I said, though, if Klein doesn’t weakly try to kick the puck away and miss, the goal never happens.

by Chris Burton on Dec 6, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

PUCK SUPPORT?

There is no need to give puck support to a guy who is all alone with the puck. Puck support is needed when a guy is battling another guy for the puck on the boards. Klein just stood there all alone like an idiot. Kick it and get off the ice! You think Klein even knows he is allowed to kick it? You think he knew that the only way a team can get scored on a delayed penalty is by putting it in your own net? I’m not sure if he knows these things. It sure doesn’t seem like it. I don’t doubt Klein, like Legwand, is a good athlete, but Ike Legwand, I question how smart he is.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

where should kilen have kicked it to?

toward ATL’s end? to the thrasher coming on the ice off the bench?
Toward center ice? Just a faster turnover
Toward his D partner? just puts it into the preds zone for ATL, and Eager was much closer than any other pred.

puck support is ALWAYS needed. no ifs ands or buts about it. Klien was left hanging out to dry by the other players on the ice. He had no out because he had no support.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 7, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Into the ATL end

Gives him time to get off the ice or grab a new stick, and the rest of the Preds to circle up.

On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Preds (be sure to check out my discount offer on Nashville Predators tickets). Catch me on Twitter at @Forechecker, or join our legions on Facebook at Facebook.com/OnTheForecheck.

by Dirk Hoag on Dec 7, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

this is when i wish we could know what communication, if any, happened on the ice. was klien asking for a stick? did any one on the bench tell him his replacement was ready to take the ice, and that he should finish the change?

either one of those communications would have made the situation immensely easier.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 7, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Just watch the replay again

Klein’s not asking for a stick, but (to share the blame all around) nobody’s up and offering him one, either. Just a total brain fart on multiple parties there.

Hardly a good sign for a team looking to exorcise the demon of Game 5 vs. Chicago.

On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Preds (be sure to check out my discount offer on Nashville Predators tickets). Catch me on Twitter at @Forechecker, or join our legions on Facebook at Facebook.com/OnTheForecheck.

by Dirk Hoag on Dec 7, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

that's pretty much the point i've been trying to get across

Don’t put all the blame wholly on Klien. Every player on the ice and even those on the bench share a fault with that goal.

there was a lack of communication between the ice and bench. (still don’t want to say klien didn’t ask for a stick when i can’t see his face while he is skating toward the bench)
and lack of support for players on the ice.
Klien just happened to be the center of attention when all the mistakes came together, and Atl made them pay for it.

i just don’t like it when one player gets the blame for a team-wide bunch of errors. Blame Klien for his error, weber for his, Ward for his, and etc.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 7, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree...

he had no play.
But he should have just put a skate on either side of the puck and tried to freeze it until support did arrive. Also, if you look at the replay, the atl. player poked the puck out just before klein tried to kick it.

by pete schweddy on Dec 7, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah

he tried to kick it away last minute in order to buy an extra few seconds for his team, still would have been a turnover, but his best option really.

just trying to hold the puck there may have also worked. though the atl player probably would have just knocked him off it and been on his way.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 7, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

flylander/Klein

Flylander—what is up with you and Klein? Are you his brother? This isnot the first time this guy has made a mistake that lead to a goal. As a matter of fact its not his third, fourth, or fifth. this guy is horrible and incosistent. Klein hurts our team badly! This time it stood out more because it was an OT goal that cost us the game. And because it was so plain to see. My question is when does he get disciplined for it? When does Trotz show us that he is tired of this too? Because he hasn’t up until now. He is not worthy to play on our team and it is really showing now. I will agree that he has improved from last year A LITTLE BIT. But he really was that bad and obviously still is. Get rid of this guy! Please!

by SinBinPred on Dec 7, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I never said Klien didn’t make a mistake.

what i don’t understand is why everyone seems so focused on what klien did and ignore all the other mistakes that went into that goal against. every player on the ice could have made a better decision than they did to help change the outcome of that play. why is klien the scapegoat?

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 7, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

THEN FREEZE IT

w/ the skates. either way dont whif and stand there. i do wonder why a stick wasnt being handed to him.

by predswilrule on Dec 7, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Ward should have gotten up faster?

HA! Did you see the spill he took? We are lucky he got up at all.

The fact is Klein made the worst choice possible. Either kick the puck, grab a stick or GET OFF THE ICE! A simple change there puts a guy out on the ice with a stick. He chooses to go stand by the puck instead, and do NOTHING!

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Why not kick the puck and get off the ice?

Instead of sitting there looking at the puck for 5 seconds waiting for it to grow like a tree?

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 7, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

i’ve said he should have gotten off the ice.

 see my comment above about communication between him and the bench.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 7, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Directly related to that, Nashville was outshot 37-29 tonight. The Predators can’t play like that with Pekka Rinne in goal, much less Anders Lindback. Lindback, to his credit, played well enough to win, but the team in front of him failed to come through. Again.

If we can’t hold a 2-goal lead against the Thrashers, how big a lead must we forge against the Wings on Wednesday in order to win?

by shoot the puck on Dec 6, 2010 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

We can beat the Wings

We just have to work on a few parts of our game. I think when/if Leggy comes back I think that there is a bigger question on who to scratch then just Spaling. I love how Spaling is playing. I think that pressure needs to be put on other vets and see how they respond. Spaling has done his part. Do not penelize him for playing well. Regardless I think this is a different team then what Detroit played in the first game. The boys just need to believe and play like it.

by ablairnash on Dec 6, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The Wings will bring their A game Wednesday after getting torched by the Sharks. Only if they don’t do the Preds have a chance, ‘cause the Wings’ A game and the Preds’ A game are definitely not the same.

by shoot the puck on Dec 6, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

We always have a chance when we play our game.

by Chris Burton on Dec 6, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean play not to lose?

by shoot the puck on Dec 6, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

If we play our game

we can beat the Wings. Hell we can beat any team in the NHL. We just have to play 60 minutes like we did against Carolina and the way we did the first period tonight.

by ablairnash on Dec 6, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

No. Namely, working hard and playing team D.

by Chris Burton on Dec 6, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd love to eat my words

but I’m a realist. Except for the ‘06 and ’07 teams, (who tanked in the playoffs just the same) the Preds have never stacked up against the elite teams in the NHL, and this team is no different. They may rise up every now and then and bite one of the big boys but by and large it’s scratch and claw against teams of our own ilk or less just to make the playoffs. And what happens when they do? Well, you know. Even the most die hard Preds fan can’t deny that.

by shoot the puck on Dec 6, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but

you know the Wings get worried everytime they play us. We usually bring our A game against those guys and have had their number several times. I dont know if I would call it a rise up every now and then.
I agree they have a better team when it comes to players. Look at the money they have compared to us. But we can beat any team on any given night. I just can’t buy into the fact that we can only win a game occasionally or get lucky every once in a while. I am not sure if that is what you are trying to say here or not. Agreed we are not the team we had back in ‘06/’07. But we still have alot of season to play and we are not out of it by any means.
Imagine this. We overcome injuries to Rinne, Lombardi, and others. We get our lines situated and make a few small moves here or there. We could very well go farther than we have before. I mean we ar enot the Islanders at this point and we aren’t that bad of a team. just young and hurt with injuries right now. But quiet honestly, we have done fairly well even with both of those things factoring in.
Think about this. If someone told you that we would play a chunk of our season up to this point without Lombardi, Rinne, Suter, and that Erat,Legwand, etc would miss some time too due to injury, would you have put our record where we are now?

by SinBinPred on Dec 7, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Think about this. If someone told you that we would play a chunk of our season up to this point without Lombardi, Rinne, Suter, and that Erat,Legwand, etc would miss some time too due to injury, would you have put our record where we are now?

Absolutely not. Considering the importance of the players we’ve lost, I’m impressed that the team has more than kept their heads above water. Suter, Lombardi, Rinne, and Legwand are four of the five most important players on the team, or were at least considered so before the season began. Its not like we’re losing Spalings and Smithsons.

by Chris Burton on Dec 7, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Spaling should not sit

so it should be Legwand or Dumont. But you just know it won’t be either of those two, because the Predators will not healthy scratch their multimillion $ players.

by shoot the puck on Dec 7, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

OVERPAID!

This stint with Legwand out has proven one thing. David Legwand might be the most overpaid player in hockey. Glorified gringer. The fact that Spaling has stepped in and essentially played the exact same role, and done it just as well, says a lot about David Legwand.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

No, he hasn’t. Spaling doesn’t have 1/12th the offensive acumen Legwand does. Given a choice between the two, even at their respective salaries, I’m taking Legwand every single time.

by Chris Burton on Dec 7, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with the 29th

What offensive accumen? Spaling…or perhaps Peverley…had he been given the chance, could’ve scored 40 pts a year just like Legwand does. $4.5 million is GROSS OVERPAYMENT.

Hey, I know we could sign Peverley for $3 million (overpaid) save $1.5 million and get 20 more points a year. And he’s an elite faceoff guy to boot! There’s a ton of guys that could do what Legwand does. He’s out and we’re not losing and our penalty kill has gotten BETTER. He’s expendable.

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 7, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

I can agree with you both here. Leggy is over paid and he is also alot better than Spailing. No offense 29th, but Ward is over paid also.

by SinBinPred on Dec 7, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Overpaid at $1.5 million is better than overpaid at $4.5 million though, right?

Even we can eat a $1.5 million contract…IF it was a bad one (which I don’t think it is).

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Dec 7, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

But both are overpaid…..in my opinion.

by SinBinPred on Dec 7, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Ward scored more goals than Legwand last year. He is just as good on defense. I hardly think 1.5 million is being overpaid for what he does.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Center, by and large, is much more difficult to play than wing.

by Chris Burton on Dec 7, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Legwand love is an unrequited one.
Want proof?

Since Legwand’s 27 goal season and his new contract his numbers go like this:
           
           Games Goals
07-08 65 15
08-09 73 20
09-10 82 11
10-11 17 2

His 27 goal season was a direct result of playing with Paul Kariya and being in a contract year. It was like the year everyone thought Anson Carter was incredible for scoring 33 goals, but he really just benefitted greatly from playing with the Sedin twins. Anson never scored more than 10 goals after that season. You may remember the year that Cheechoo scored 56 goals. They were almost all scored after San Jose traded for Thornton and he started playing on a line with him.

Here’s a question for you. At the age of 30 are David Legwand’s best years behind him? The numbers certainly suggest it.

Does David Legwand play good defense? Yes.
Do a lot of forwards play good defense? Yes.
In the new NHL you have to play defense if you wanna survive.

I firmly believe that Legwand being out does not affect us one way or the other as long as we have another good defensive forward playing in his spot. If you have proof otherwise, then please share it.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the point that you’re missing (and most continue to miss) is that David Legwand plays above-average NHL defense. I can count on both hands the number of players better than him at shutting down the NHL’s elite – Mikko Koivu, Pavel Datsyuk, Ryan Kesler, Jonathan Toews, Jay McClement, David Legwand. Obviously, Leggy isn’t as good as most of these guys on offense, but he does play comparable defense and its unfair to expect 30g out of him when he’s up against Rick Nash and Henrik Zetterberg every night.

by Chris Burton on Dec 7, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Richards, Zajac, Crosby, Thornton, Sedin, Backstrom, Jordan and Eric Stall, Getzlaf, Plekanec. Those are just some you left out. I feel that they earn their money.I know the point is that Legwand is an above average defensive forward. I am just saying he is overpaid for his production. He needs to be better on the other end to earn that kind of money. If he got paid 3 mil a year, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you to an extent, but I’m wary of while we’re criticizing Legwand for not contributing on offense, we star undervaluing his contributions elsewhere.

by Chris Burton on Dec 7, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow...

I’ve been posting these numbers everywhere the past couple weeks…

When the Predators have had all four Opening Night centers (O’Reilly, Lombardi, Legwand, and Goc) in the lineup the offense has scored 3.5 goals per game (GPG).

When the Predators have had three of the four Opening Night centers in the lineup they’ve scored at a 3.1 GPG clip (currently good for 8th in the league – 2 teams tied at 3.11 GPG for 6th).

When the Predators have had just two of the four Opening Night centers in the lineup they’ve scored at just a 1.94 GPG clip (currently just above NJ at 29th in the league).

Overall the team has played at 2.35 GPG clip, which has them ranked as the 27th offense in the NHL.

You can draw your own conclusion, but clearly there hasn’t been anyone yet to step up and fill the void offensively while Legwand/Goc have been out of the lineup…

Predators Hockey: Live it, Love it...
Follow me on Twitter: @SLakePreds

by Seth Lake on Dec 7, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Since Leggy went down...

We are averaging 2 goals a game. However, over the last 4 games without him we are averaging over 3 a game again. 4 games ago was when Trotz switched up the lines. Anytime a player goes down you are going to have to switch things up to find chemistry amongst guys. Seems we have found the combination for success without Legwand. We aren’t missing out on much without him, but we are paying too much for him.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Last night showed need for 3rd two-way offensive line...

As we watched the second and third periods, it was evident that ATL made adjustments during the 1st intermission to take away time and space from our only two offensive lines (O’Reilly and Goc). Without a third offensive line to loosen the grip on the top-six, the offense is shut down and we have to win on 2 goals or less…

That third goal would’ve been a huge boost last night and if it came at the right time, could have been the dagger in the heart we needed to end the game early.

I’m not arguing that Legwand isn’t overpaid, but the budget is the budget and that money has already been spent. What I’m arguing is your assertion that Spaling is as good as Legwand…

Tell me, which would’ve likely produced a third offensive line last night?

Dumont – Spaling – Hornqvist or Dumont – Legwand – Hornqvist?

I think the answer is clear. While Legwand himself doesn’t produce much offense, he not only stops the other team from scoring most nights, but he also has a skill set that compliments the team offensive concept and allows the team to generate more goals…

Predators Hockey: Live it, Love it...
Follow me on Twitter: @SLakePreds

by Seth Lake on Dec 7, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

We have gone on our best PK streak of the organization since Legwand has been out. I think that resonates louder than anything said here.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Guess who's played a big role in that...

Our fan base’s other whipping boy…

Martin Erat! Erat has been great on the kill recently…

I don’t get where you are drawing your conclusion from though…no one said that Spaling can’t play very good defense in the NHL. We have plenty of guys to step up in that regard (Spaling, Smithson, Goc, Begin, Geoffrion, etc), it’s been our offense that’s taken a major hit…

Predators Hockey: Live it, Love it...
Follow me on Twitter: @SLakePreds

by Seth Lake on Dec 7, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

What conclusion? Legwands’ worth? I think I have explained where that conclusion came from.

When a guy that plays 17:41 minutes a night goes out, there will be a drop in production at first. We have adjusted and are back to scoring an avg. of three goals a night again. I don’t see how having a guy out that has 2 goals, 6 assists in 17 games in 17 plus minutes a night is causing our offense to take a major hit. I could see how missing Goc would hurt though.

Also, Erat has looked good lately.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Your insinuation....

Insinuation or conclusion that Legwand going out of the lineup has helped the PK was what I was referring to.

Sadly, it took 5 games for the team to start to “adjust” after Legwand went out and score more than their average of 2 goals a night. Even then, it’s been because the top-six and PP have finally stepped up and started to score that has allowed them to do so more than a third line of offense coming from somewhere at even-strength.

No one is arguing that Legwand is not overpaid (granted it was fair market value when he signed), but trying to imply that he is worthless really has no merit. A combination of Smithson and Spaling have filled in defensively for Legwand (Smithson defensively at ES, Spaling taking his role on the PK), but neither can arguably be said to have create as much offense as Legwand can create with his skill set.

If you’d like to get rid of Legwand and replace him with Spaling, feel free…but, don’t then complain that the team can’t score consistently…

Predators Hockey: Live it, Love it...
Follow me on Twitter: @SLakePreds

by Seth Lake on Dec 7, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Klein and faceoffs

Faceoffs the last two games have been terrible. Have to get that fixed. And no the entire loss cannot be pinned on Klein tonight but how come evertime there is a turnover in our zone this year I can close my eyes and point to Klein? And what was he thinking earlier in the game when he almost scored an own goal? At the very least he was gonna throw it out of the zone for no reason. Please get someone else to replace Klein he has cost us too many goals this year.

by PredWeasel87 on Dec 6, 2010 10:53 PM EST reply actions  

I held off from commenting on this one...

…because some of you had disagreed with my assessment of Klein, and I was pretty pissed at him last night. Granted, one mistake does not a bad player make, but this isn’t just one mistake. The turnover last night cost us a point. There have been enough other serious mental mistakes on his part this season for me to want to see him on the bench for a few (or more) games. It wasn’t all his fault…we were ultimately beaten by a good Atlanta team. Atlanta beat us with aggressive play, from what it looked like in the last two periods and OT.

And I’m still not impressed with Sullivan. Yes, he was a +1 last night. Yes, he scored a goal…a deflection. Unless he was awesome in the first (which, sadly, I missed – other than highlights), I’m starting to get a little more than concerned.

I think we’re a playoff-bound team in a tough division. However, I’d almost rather not make the playoffs at all if we’re going to just barely scrape in and then get knocked out in the first round. I know, I know…it’s still early in the season, but my confidence level is only so-so when watching games like last night.

Is Lombardi better yet?

by rusherman on Dec 7, 2010 9:17 AM EST reply actions  

Sully sucked all night, except for the goal. Which was really set up by the play of O’reilly and the quick shot of Wilson. I agree with the mental part of Klein’s game. As I said earlier in the thread, I think he is a good athlete, but a stupid player.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm hoping..

That Linus Klasen gets his defensive game shored up so he can be the replacement for Sully. He definitely has the scoring chops, and better hands than Sully imo.

by DonBorvio on Dec 7, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

EXCEPT LAST YEARS PLAYOFFS

sully has sucked since resigning. hes had a few good moments, but he cant/wont engage physically anymore ( actually really goes out of his way to avoid corner scrums) and passes on too many shots in favor of some off the wall backhanded drop pass. and i totally agree that he cant finish like he used to. he has more breakaways than the rest of the team combined and never scores. even his shootout winner looked like a gaff that went in.

by predswilrule on Dec 7, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Team Identity

This is not an attempt to get a “Fire Trotz” thred going. Overall, I think he does a good job. However, I think that the coaching message might be a source for the Jekyll and Hyde identity of this team if it is similar to the kinds of things said in post-game pressers and interviews.

It’s NOT OK for the team’s identity to be associated with the following phrases(even though some of them may be true): “We’re a small budget team with LESS talent than other teams with more money. We win scoring fewer goals. We’re going to have to win those one goal games.”
 
It IS OK for us to use these: “The Predators come at with you with speed. We have a true team mentality. We like to play rolling four offensive lines. We play TOGETHER as a team.”

How can you want to roll four offensive lines and be a team that doesn’t score a lot?

I get the sense that the team lets off the gas (like last night) because they believe they’re not supposed to win. They’re not as talented, They don’t score a lot of goals. It’s all BS.
The preds ARE a talented team. They CAN score goals. They CAN win hockey games.

Sorry to be so touchy-feely but it just kills me when the talking heads on TSN talk down to my team.The problem is I think that the team believes what is being said about them.

by Tim P on Dec 7, 2010 10:28 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah...! Darn it klein...

why did you leave the WHOLE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ICE OPEN for bogosian to take an uncontested pass and skate toward the goal completely unmolested.

Wilson should have stayed where he was instead of heading toward the puck…..

by pete schweddy on Dec 7, 2010 10:39 AM EST reply actions  

PREDS BRASS+++++

If you are reading this….please bench,trade,or send Kevin Klein. Flylander said that he can come play a game of pick up hockey with him.

wink -wink there flyboy………

by SinBinPred on Dec 7, 2010 1:28 PM EST reply actions  

Klein

I am sorry guys. I do not mean to be so harsh about Klein. But it could be a good thing that this happened. He really does need some work on his game. Defensively we are horrible and I know it is not all because of him. But I will say that he has alot to do with it. It has just happened too many times. Not just this year, but years past.
Trust me….the Preds are my life. I love this team. And I hate it when people speak negative things upon this team. But lets call a spade a spade. Klein has got to go. SOON!

by SinBinPred on Dec 7, 2010 1:37 PM EST reply actions  

Trade him.

I feel like the guy’s good 90% of the time, but he’s SO BAD the other 10% that I don’t know if its worth it. I feel like we have the defensive depth in the organization to use him as trade bait for something.

There's only two kinds of teams in the NHL: Predators and prey.

by Predanooga on Dec 7, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Klein is a +7. He can’t be that bad.

by cisar on Dec 8, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

90%

I was thinking more of 60-40……

by SinBinPred on Dec 7, 2010 2:42 PM EST reply actions  

I know I'm not going to be popular here

But did anyone ever think – if Weber hadn’t taken that stupid boarding penalty, which lead to the PP goal that tied it up – what whould have happened then? I replayed that portion of the game more than once – I think Weber could have avoided that hit. Yes, Klein could have kicked the puck harder, or towards ATL goal, or something – but the team wins and loses as a team.

by XVIII on Dec 7, 2010 3:02 PM EST reply actions  

I AGREE

w/ the weber penalty, but kleins, et al, actions caused the game to end whereas webers was much earlier. the last bad play always gets all the ire.

by predswilrule on Dec 7, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

thank you
the team wins and loses as a team.

somebody else that gets it.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 7, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

but the team wins and loses as a team.

Absolutely. This is true of us more than almost any other team in the league. Which is why we can’t afford for one guy to make an awful mistake, like Klein did.

But you’re right – if the captain doesn’t board Bergfors unnecessarily, then who knows? I do think, though, Weber was absolutely furious about the non-call when he got hit in the face, and was looking to take it out on anything.

by Chris Burton on Dec 7, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

If the refs called high sticking on the Thrashers for splitting Weber’s lip and we got a 4 minute pp – What would have happened then? We probably wouldn’t have scored, but still how do they miss that call? The puck was right there, all the refs eyes had to be in that vicinity. It’s not like it happened away from the play. They sure saw all our penalties.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Flylander

Have you watched any of the other games this season? If so, I do not see how you can stick up for Klein. He is a wweak link without a doubt. And that is putting it nicely.
Yes a million other things could have went different. But he CONSISTENTLY screws up. that is why we are down on your boy. I hate him and wish he would get turf toe and be out for the rest of the season! SCREW KEVIN KLEIN!

by SinBinPred on Dec 7, 2010 4:25 PM EST reply actions  

he screwed up

  but people were pinning the last goal wholly on him, when everyone made the wrong decision on that play.
I’m ok with holding Klien responsible for his mistake.
  However, his mistake didn’t single-handedly cause that goal against. so pinning that goal solely on him is ridiculous. if it had i would have no problem with blaming him, but any of the 4 players on the ice could have made a better decision than they did. In fact if just 1 of the 4 made a different decision then the outcome of that play would have ended differently. Because of this, every player on the ice should be held accountable for their part in that play.
  I would also like to say that i have made no comment on the entirety of Klien’s season. My original post, along with everything else i have written about in this thread has been about this one goal in this one game. If this thread was about the season or about more than this one game then my views could be different.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

by flyalder on Dec 7, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Really poor game from Klein

It’s all be said about the game winner… just a brain freeze on his part. Terrible.
But what about the game-typing PP goal? His effort to tie-up Ladd was pathethic… got beat to the front of the net and barely touched him as he sailed by. Feebly put his stick on top of Ladd’s as he pushed the puck in the net.

The bottom line on Klein is he makes me really nervous wherever he is on the ice — whether he has the puck and is about to cough it up or if he’s out of position when he doesn’t have it. I would much rather see Franson given the chance to be in that top 4 role, or bring up Blum. Regardless, Klein should not be receiving top 4 minutes under any circumstance.

by atty123 on Dec 7, 2010 5:30 PM EST reply actions  

Klein was on the far side on that draw. O’Brien moves from where Ladd was away from the crease. Klein went past the spot SOB just cleared out of, across the top of the crease, and got there late.

Win that draw, or at least don’t lose it cleanly and the scoring chance doesn’t develop as quickly if at all.

by 101st on Dec 7, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

…well this thread blew up when I wasn’t looking. Good discussion, all.

by Chris Burton on Dec 7, 2010 5:49 PM EST reply actions  

Klein

He is a good player and athlete. It is his inability to make decisions in high pressure situations that is killing us.

I don’t know if he panics or what.

I really think he could be awesome, but his decision making in those pivotal times has seriously cost us points. I can’t think of another player that I feel has actually cost us points for something they did or didn’t do. I understand you lose as a team, but he seems to find unique ways to turnover the puck at the worst time.

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

Klein is a +7.
Spaling -7
Weber -8
Ward -6
Smithson -6
O’Brien -6

by cisar on Dec 8, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Klein – Watch what he does. We’re all so busy blaming him for not doing anything right away when his first act was to actually look and see where everyone was. Burmistrov is heading to the bench directly in front of him, Enstrom is back on the blue line if Klein manages to kick the puck past Burmistrov, Eager is closing in on him from center ice and Bogosian is somewhere off to the far side. His teammates are standing still at center ice (Ward), Cube coming up the near boards, Wilson abandoning the far side and approaching. When Klein does finally do something, it looks more like he tries to put his right skate between Eager’s stick and the puck but does it late, stepping on the blade after the puck is poked forward … almost an attempt to let Cube get there that went wrong. It almost looks like SOB offers Klein a stick after the puck is on its way to Bogo along with the staff at the far end of the bench. No puck support, no stick from the bench (we can wonder what the communication situation was on both all we want), and nobody staying home on the far side all contributed as much as Klein.

On the first two goals, faceoff losses are to blame. Clean loss at the dot in our defensive end, two seconds later in the back of the net. Another clean loss in our defensive end, shot, rebound and goal in five seconds. Both start with the loss at the dot.

by 101st on Dec 7, 2010 7:19 PM EST reply actions  

Whoa!!! There 101st...

don’t go trying to be all analytical and objective…klein is obviously the worst D-man this team has ever had.

by pete schweddy on Dec 7, 2010 7:38 PM EST reply actions  

You forgot Greg Devries!

by 29thWard on Dec 7, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Ville Koistenen

by 101st on Dec 7, 2010 7:58 PM EST reply actions  

Klein

Nope Kevin Klein is by far the worst ever. I cant stand this guy. It is personal because I love this team that much and spend good money for season tickets. My new T-shirrt will say I HATE KEVIN KLEIN! Lets all picket the front office with TRADE KLEIN signs!
I am so happy that we are finally having a discussion about this guy. Dirk, how about a write up on ole KK? I would do it, but it might get pretty bad….I am trying to hold back the curse words now.

by SinBinPred on Dec 8, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

We can compare his GA/60 to Weber’s at ES and on the PK …. guess who has the better numbers. (hint, he doesn’t have a C on the front of his sweater). When Klein makes a mistake, the hatred comes out. When Bouillon, Suter, or Weber make one the silence is deafening.

by 101st on Dec 8, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m with you. This blog loves to pick a scapegoat player and blame everything on him: Erat, Hamhuis, Arnott and Klein all come to mind. Of course, it’s always a terrible oversimplification to pin all of our problems on one player

by Lil cutie on Dec 8, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

But it is so easy to scapegoat a guy and it requires so little analysis.

by 101st on Dec 8, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

"this blog"?

I don’t think there’s a collective mindset here. I didn’t have a big problem with Hamhuis, and when it comes to Arnott, I think I’m about the only Preds blogger around who stuck up for him (and boy does this team miss his presence down the middle now). My beef with Erat is simply that he’ll never be a reliable goal-scorer.

With Klein, yes, I call out his gaffes, which you have to considering some of the critical ones which have cost this team games.

There are a variety of opinions out there, and the purpose of having a community like this is for us to share them.

On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Preds (be sure to check out my discount offer on Nashville Predators tickets). Catch me on Twitter at @Forechecker, or join our legions on Facebook at Facebook.com/OnTheForecheck.

by Dirk Hoag on Dec 8, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

No no no...

That wasn’t clear- I meant that many commenters on this blog tend to pick a scapegoat when we lose, usually unfairly. The contributors, on the other hand, are very good about remaining objective. You guys deserve a lot of credit for that.

And I don’t think people shouldn’t be allowed to express their opinions, but when they place a disproportionately large amount of blame on one or two guys, that just doesn’t seem right.

I absolutely love this blog, way too much to be honest. Keep up the great work Dirk.

by Lil cutie on Dec 9, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

gotcha

It’s tempting to look for an individual goat after a loss, that’s for sure.

On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Preds (be sure to check out my discount offer on Nashville Predators tickets). Catch me on Twitter at @Forechecker, or join our legions on Facebook at Facebook.com/OnTheForecheck.

by Dirk Hoag on Dec 9, 2010 7:40 AM EST up reply actions  

It may be hard to keep your chin up after this one, but Nashville has earned 8 out of a possible 10 points in their last five games, and head now to Detroit to take on the Red Wings. The team isn’t mired in a slump, but another effort such as tonight’s will result in embarrassment at Joe Louis Arena.

Let us not forget the Predators were coming off another ugly loss the last time they visited the Joe. They can’t just play better, they have to play way better tomorrow night.

by shoot the puck on Dec 7, 2010 10:44 PM EST reply actions  

I love Klein

Did I mention that he is a +7?

by cisar on Dec 8, 2010 10:35 PM EST reply actions  

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