Sunday's notes: Signing the Big 3 still a monumental task
by Dirk Hoag on Nov 6, 2011 1:00 PM EST
in Nashville Predators News
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PrintThe Nashville Predators fan base is understandably giddy over Pekka Rinne's mammoth contract extension, as it is refreshing to see a financially-constrained team step up and make such a major commitment to retain one of its star players. While there is the one question of whether that contract is, in itself, a wise move, the more immediate concern is whether it makes the re-signing of Shea Weber and Ryan Suter easier or harder.
Will those two be impressed by ownership's willingness to shell out the cash to the star goaltender, or concerned about the team's ability to bring in enough surrounding talent, now that $7 million is being tied up long-term in a position which is so prone to wild swings in performance? David Poile may indeed have the "green light" to offer the Big 3 market-value contracts, but what does that mean for the rest of the roster, with so many other players requiring new contracts as well?
Those issues will still linger over this team until we actually see contracts signed, because unfortunately, talk is cheap. Our hockey notes today kick off with speculation about trading Ryan Suter, for example...
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Talk is cheap, that's for sure
Shea Weber’s repeated reassurances to Predators fans is proof of that. So is the $7.5-million payout for a single season. GM Poile says he’ll meet with Suter’s agent this month. Till then, it’s all idle chatter.
by Hockey Hillbilly on Nov 6, 2011 1:46 PM EST reply actions
The question that needs to be asked of ownership is........
How much money do they intend on spending on payroll? Saying things like “we’ll spend more money than last season” or “money isn’t the issue” are all nebulous statements, what we need is an actual dollar amount (not an exact dollar amount, but a good ballpark figure). Otherwise, this is just a bunch of happy rhetoric.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 1:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe they meant they would ‘personally’ spend more than last year. Like, they might each by themselves a new house and some cars….
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
I don’t think it matters because their contracts won’t be for this year. Are you talking next year?
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
That is what a lot of people are not realizing. They think that this will hurt affect spending for this year. We still have a lot of room to at least “rent a player” when we get closer to the deadline. Then IF Rads comes back next year, he doesn’t hurt the cap much. Plus I think Erat’s pay comes down closer to normal.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
Rads returning wouldn’t hurt our cap much for the 12/13 season, but he’ll want the big bucks too after that. The same issue of ownership being willing to spend well above their current spending level will still be around then.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 11:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Here I am saying cap again...
I mean spending. We all know the cap is not an issue.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
If Rads comes back
seems the Preds will have to give him a salary bump up front.
We should resign Suter and let Weber walk
Unless we don’t resign Suter by the trade deadline, in which case we oughta resign Weber and let Suter walk. If neither wants to resign with us, the F&$^ both of them.
We could get an awful lotta stuff for them two boys.
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Nov 6, 2011 2:12 PM EST reply actions
I think we should resign you.
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
LOL!
I would have kept that SWFP guy, but PRfP has to go. :D
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 2:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can be had....
…for the right price of course.
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Nov 6, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
OK, Hear me out
He might look perpetually confused, but I think that Legwand is actually one of the smartest hockey players on our team.
1. He may not get the pretty goals, but they are generally off of a deflection or the coveted “lucky bounce,” but what are the odds that he is actually thinking about where the puck is going to hit the player (sometimes back of the goalie in last years playoffs) and deflect off to score. As often as his goals are called "fluke"goals or “lucky bounces,” I think he might know what he is doing.
2. We all rag on him for Empty Net Goals, but how often does he make a dumb play in those situations? That is why Trotz trusts him out there in those situations. He doesn’t make dumb shots, and most of all, he doesn’t get too excited and shoot early. When he takes a SOG with the empty not he always makes sure he is up the ice enough to make sure there is no chance for icing if he misses.
3. In Penalty Kill situations, when he gets the chance, he doesn’t just clear the puck. He takes it into the offensive zone and ties it up for as long as possible. He isn’t trying to score generally, but to take up time.
Anyways, I know I will probably be burned at the stake for making a statement about Legwand being smart, but its just my opinion. Night in and night out he is one of the most hard working defensive forwards Nashville has. He is a grinder, and a smart one at that.
No, you’ll be burned at the stake for breaking all our computer/smart phone screens with that picture of Leggy!
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 2:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I tried to find the one where he looked the most confused. Haha.
by Preds of State on Nov 6, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
…so pretty much any picture could have been used
60% of the time it works every time
by Creeping Death on Nov 6, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t remember the last time he missed an ENG. It seems to me that he always puts it dead center, too.
He does know what he is doing. It is called ‘GETTING THE PUCK ON NET AND LETTING GOOD THINGS HAPPEN’.
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
String him up!!!
It’s funny that you validate him by his ability to score on bank shots and when the net is empty. Geez, was he really that bad in the past? I can’t even remember.
But he’s Leggy the Lion this year, so let’s just go wif dat.
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Nov 6, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say best player
I said one of the smartest.
by Preds of State on Nov 6, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
He's so smart that him and Gretzky should share a locker in the hall of fame.
But like I said, Leggy the Lion this year……..
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Nov 6, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
and if he has a really good year all season long?
will you change your name to: Legwand the Lion for Leader
by Only Fan In J.C. ? on Nov 6, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
No, I will not do that.
:)
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Nov 7, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I will change it instead to:
Leggy the Lionhearted
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Nov 7, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Trotzy says:
That Leggy has good hockey IQ
by Only Fan In J.C. ? on Nov 6, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
You had me from
He might look perpetually confused…
Now excuse me while I go back and actually read your entire post :)
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
Conclusion:
I’m not the biggest Leggy fan, but I have to say, compared to a few years ago, where he was constantly driving me crazy, I’ve come to appreciate his presence on the ice. I agree with you – he’s not the most talented or intellectually intelligent guy, but he’s talented in terms of his hockey IQ.
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
He’s pretty damned good in the defensive game, too.
by Hockey Hillbilly on Nov 6, 2011 2:28 PM EST reply actions
An Outsider's View
We think the Preds were ahead of their time with this signing and may have
set the trend for the rest of the League, while also locking up one of the top young goaltenders in the league. Read our blog about it.
Interesting idea, but I liked the idea of salary caps to even the playing field. But thinking about it – it really still isn’t even. The Preds can only spend to the cap midpoint to get full revenue sharing. Larger areas can still sign players to crazy contracts (Kovalchuk, anyone?). So a luxury tax system would actually be better for hockey and if the Rangers, Toronto, or whoever want to spend like crazy – still doesn’t mean they will sign the best players or win the Cup. The Yankees don’t win the World Series every year.
The cap is really kind of a joke anyway with high spending teams being able to bury large contracts in the AHL and being able to use the LTIR as a way to spend over the cap. I’d like to see a soft cap (which is basically what we have now) and a hard cap that a team can’t around. Everything a team spends between the soft cap and the hard cap would be subject to a luxury tax. Maybe a 10 or 15M gap between the soft and hard caps.
Just a thought.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 11:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like those ideas.
Also, what ever a player receives in a season, counts against that season’s cap. Not spread out.
The team should concentrate on getting good value on all 3 of their top assets. Rinne got more than any goalie’s worth, but it may be better than letting him go for little in return (perhaps some team’s willing to give up a lot for a top goalie right now, but I can’t think of one). Suter? He’s a great defenseman – best on the team, in my opinion – but his talent is less known throughout the league; sign him for less than $7M/season or trade him. Weber? He’s already sealed his fate by asking for so much money this offseason – besides, he’s the most coveted Predator; work out a deal on him, knowing you’ve got his rights for at another year after this.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
EXACTLY
i dont know if we can sign suter but im convinced we cant sign weber once he is a ufa. as long as he has a decent/good year and is healthy he will never be more valuable than at next years draft. we dont need picks or prospects. we need a scorer in return. someone webers equal on the other end of the ice. considering parise’s contract issues he comes to mind.
red light hockey post
when the describe weber, they talk stats. i wish they did a comparison with suter.
Better off with suter
Personally I think if we had to choose between the 2 suter would be the best choice, he is way underated and we all know weber blows with out him, so if you let suter go then your left with a guy that only plays good with suter, meaning weber will suck, suter plays good with anybody, just my opinion, but I hope we keep them both
by Preds&niners on Nov 6, 2011 7:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I agree, I would like to see all 3, but if you lose one, trade Weber and get a scorer and maybe some depth in D. If we lose both, we are in big trouble on D.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
The problem is........
We don’t know what Suter’s intentions are at this point, so moving Weber might be premature. Compounding the problem is that teams will be leary of trading key assets for Weber if they’re uncertain about whether he’ll sign long term with them. Compounding things even further is that if both Suter and Weber come to the conclusion that by them both re-signing here long term it disables the team from making further improvements, they may decide to look elsewhere to sign.
Unless ownership intends on spending at least 60M on payroll next season (we’ll see if there’s a salary rollback in the next CBA), I don’t see how we re-sign the big two and add a legit scorer as well.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 9:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree...
I think you have to see what Suter wants to do. Then you have plenty of time to see what you want to do with Weber. They will have to spend more to get some scoring. I think they can do it. Craig Smith seems to be legit, but you are right. I think that if a top-line scorer is added, this team is a real threat for the Cup. I know you may disagree, but I think the future is bright.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
IF a top line scorer is added in addition to keeping the big 3, I agree that we’re a threat to win the Cup. That will take quite a bit of additional spending by ownership to accomplish. Being the 3rd lowest team in payroll right now doesn’t give me much confidence that they will do that.
The balls in their court, we’ll see if they’re serious about making things happen here or just blowing smoke. We’ll find out soon enough.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 11:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You can look at it two ways...
It may not give you much confidence, but it does mean that they have a lot of room. Weber’s salary would not be much higher (he is already at 7.5mil), Pekka’s is higher, Suter probably goes up 3-4 mil. We save about 1.5-2 mil from Erat, Legwand, and Fisher’s contracts going down. Granted, we have a lot of RFA/UFAs to deal with. I am thinking they add a Top 3 scorer, just might not be Top 3 in the league scorer. Let’s hope for ZP though. This is a good team when healthy, if the Preds can add another scorer, they are great. You are right, we will see.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
There's a few other ways to look at it all
The Preds can’t spend the money if Weber and/or Suter won’t take the money.. and we can’t pay top dollar for ZP (or any other scored) if they won’t come here. But if ownership is serious, keep flashing that money around and we will bring in talent… as we have before. Let’s just not get desperate and bring in anyone who’ll take a dollar.
I have been playing with capgeek
and I can’t really see keeping all 3 AND getting ZP. We would be looking at a rent a player OR a 4 mil a year type guy.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
To get ZP
or any comparable player we would probably have to trade for him. Luring a free agent ZP wouldn’t be easy.
I am thinking he would take 7-8 million...
assuming he has a good season this year. I would like to see Iginla here as well, although he is getting near the end of his career.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
I agree with you that we probably can't keep all 3 and bring in a player like ZP
except for maybe a trade deadline sort of deal.
DP also has 9 picks in the next draft. I do think that the Preds are in a good position.
If they can’t/decide not to keep Suter AND Weber, they should be able to bring in some big offensive talent.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
Holy cow, he’s up to 9 picks this draft?!
That’s really impressive.
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
I am pretty sure the O’Reilly trade took us to 9.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
I say us, but I am not on the team! It is hard not to do that.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
Yeah, after a while, I just quit trying to catch myself using “us/we/our.” No point, haha.
But anyway – good for GMDP. We (lol) tend to make pretty high-quality picks, so I expect great things!
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
I’d insert “sometimes” we tend to make pretty high-quality picks. :)
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 7, 2011 1:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sure, that’s fair haha. We have gotten quite a few winners though… Erat, Horny, Weber, Rinne, Suter, Lindback, Smith, etc. etc. There have, of course, been a far larger number of picks that didn’t work out, but I think we tend to be relatively decent. I don’t follow THAT closely with these kinds of things, however, so I only know as much as I can remember :)
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
Klein
and of course the Honey Badger, Blum, Boomer, Wilson, Spaling, and Florida Panthers Santorelli and Upshall… the list goes on and on and on
by Only Fan In J.C. ? on Nov 7, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
by saying you can look at it 2 ways I am saying either they are just being cheap or the low spending this year has put them in a good position to bring in the talent needed to be a great team. I think we have seen that this team when healthy is pretty good. What Cigarran and Poile are saying leads you to believe they are going to offer “market” rates to Suter and Weber and then see what they can bring in “within reason” for offensive power. I am thinking they are in a good position salary wise to do some things.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
Let’s put it this way, Rinne=3.5M more next season, Suter likely=3.5M more and Weber maybe=1M more if we signed him long term. That’s an 8M bump over this years payroll, about an overall payroll of 58M if everything else stays about the same. Add even a decent scorer and that’s another 4 or 5M. Looks kind of bleak when you add up the numbers.
At the end of the day, Weber likely becomes to costly to keep. The key is to leverage him for a top tier scorer while retaining Suter. Sounds easy, eh? :D
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 7, 2011 1:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I came to about 59 adding a 4 mil scorer on capgeek.com
Some of that is due to the costs of Erat, Legwand, and Fisher going down (real money, not cap). I didn’t give Weber a raise, because, I don’t think they will. If he wants more than 7.5 I think he is gone. Then you can talk about bringing a top of the league type scorer. If you trade Weber you have to do something to deal with depth issues on defense. It should be pretty interesting to see how it all plays out. You can also factor letting Kostitsyn go IF you bring in a great scorer, especially IF Radulov comes back.
For the record I will believe Radulov is coming back when I see him in a Predators uniform on the ice.
I agree that Weber is probably the one who will be gone, I would just love for them to be able to keep him AND add a top scorer.
Beer... Now there's a temporary solution.-Homer Simpson
If you trade Weber you have to do something to deal with depth issues on defense.
As much as freedom as trading Weber would give us, this is a very real problem. We have a decent line of Dmen in the wings (Josi, Ellis, etc.), but the question is, out of the gate, would they be ready to (and would they ever, truly be capable of) play at Weber’s level? I believe the answers are definitely not, and most likely not (at least not for a while).
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
Blows without him?
Have you not watched the last couple games? Trotz has put weber and suter with different pairs….I think he is showing all you weber haterz that he is a great hockey player….weber and suter are great together yes, but just open your eyes and watch sometimes
by PredsFan29 on Nov 7, 2011 12:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
He blew when Suter was out for 19 games...
The whole team did. We did a terrifying nose-dive. If I remember correctly… we lost most of our games, we weren’t playing well at all, we gave up a ton of shots, and (the grande finale!) wasn’t Weber at -13, or something equally as frightening??
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
Blues fires their coach, replaced him with Hitchcock! :o
Wow, I would have expected the Jackets to be doing the firing today, not the Blues!
Not totally surprised the Blues were looking at making a coaching change, as they weren’t improving despite having more talent this season. Not sure Hitchcock is the answer though.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 9:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Big 3
Look the Preds need to try and sign Suter first then Weber. Players like these just don’t fall out of the sky. If DP trades Suter we"ll never receive fair value, same with Weber.
You’ve got to pay these guys – both are potential HOF type players. With Pekka, Suter and Weber this team will challange every single year!
Challange for a playoff spot?
We’ll always be in contention for a playoff spot with the big 3 on board, but not a Stanley Cup if we do nothing else but keep those 3. IMHO.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 6, 2011 10:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree.
And we need someone who can put the puck in the goddamned net (pardon me). Consistently. Those things = SC serious contention.
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
+1
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Nov 7, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
trading weber would basically be trading away part of our team’s identity…. i think it would hurt this franchise in a lot of ways. obviously he’s an outstanding talent, most hockey pundits would agree he is one of the top 5 d-men in the league. weber also has a nasty streak that when it surfaces, can be ferocious and intimidating… everyone remember what happened to Andreas Lilya? I think that was the last fight he got in and it ended Lilya’s season. So, nobody really wants to tangle with him. I just wish it would come out a little more often, just to send a message when someone like Fisher takes a high, blind-side hit.
Also, what kind of message does it say to future free agents we’re trying to sign? “Well, we traded our captain, who quite possibly was the best player to ever come through here. This is definitely where you want to sign.” Not a good sales pitch.
I think we definitely took a huge step in the right direction by resigning Peks though. It sends the right message and maybe it’s a sign of things to come for the way this franchise operates in the future.
Losing either Weber or Suter would be a big step back. Even if you get something big in return, which you really won’t. Eventhough I’m not the biggest Suter fan, he’s still way better than Klein, and that’s who would fill his shoes next to Weber. I’m not liking our defense too much at that point.
It all depends.....
If you lose Weber but, let’s say, entice Parise to sign here and play with his buddy Suter (provided Suter stays here), then you avoid that “they just let their stars walk” preception.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 7, 2011 2:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You know for someone who insists on being realistic, you sure do say “if we could get Parise” a lot. :P
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
Part Predator, part Lightning.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY PEKKA!!!
Just using ZP as my hypothetical example. ;p
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Nov 7, 2011 4:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m glad that it was Kleiner who took the roughing to Beauchemin after that hit. Weber might have gotten more heavily penalized, especially since Beauchemin didn’t want to drop the gloves. As it was, I thought we should have been on the powerplay, but it could have been worse if we were on the penalty kill.
by Only Fan In J.C. ? on Nov 7, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
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