Sunday's notes: Teemu Selanne night in Winnipeg
by Dirk Hoag on Dec 18, 2011 11:26 AM EST
in Nashville Predators News
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Curl up for a good long bout of hockey reading this morning, as our news & notes from around the league touch on all the bases - there was a Love-In for Teemu Selanne last night in Winnipeg, a long-awaited trade which finally went through, another head coach receiving his walking papers, and a buzzer-beating goal that resulted in a surprising finish.
All that, and of course, further speculation and discussion about Philadelphia's need to trade for a big-name defenseman after losing Chris Pronger for the season. Just follow after the jump for all that and more!
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Nashville Predators News
From last night's game, here are your Corsi Numbers, and post-game audio from Barry Trotz, Shea Weber, Martin Erat, and Pekka Rinne (click each name for the MP3). As always, surf through the "More Predators Sites" box on the left-hand site of the main page here at OTF for game recaps from the other blogs around town.
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2011-2012 Regular Season - NHL.com - Three Stars
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Hey, they're the "Admirals" - can't we work in a nautical idiom?
Poile responds to rumors - Predators Insider
Josh Cooper checks in on all this Philly/Nashville trade speculation.
Around the Wide Wide World of Hockey
Crowd roars for Selanne from start to finish - NHL.com
Is there a more widely respected/beloved figure in the hockey world than Teemu Selanne? Last night, the feel-good story around the league was his return to Winnipeg, where he starred as a young player.
Deal for Pronger clone expensive | Courier-Post | courierpostonline.com
Here's a column from the Flyers' perspective on their possible interest in Shea Weber or Ryan Suter.
Perspective more vital than statistics - The Province
Count the Canucks among the NHL teams which use advanced statistical analysis to help make decisions.
Martin Sacked - Habs Eyes On The Prize
Jacques Martin makes the 6th NHL head coach fired already this season.
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Sure, they dumped the coach, but are deeper changes required in Montreal?
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It's Ottawa which ends up with the disgruntled young forward from Phoenix, so Mark provides a thorough breakdown for Sens fans.
The Dark Blue Jacket: Craig Patrick
Columbus found a well-respected figure in Craig Patrick to advise their front office, but how quickly can his influence boost their on-ice fortunes?
Couturier taken to hospital for further evaluation - NHL.com
Another accident hits Philadelphia as Flyers rookie Sean Couturier takes a puck off the noggin.
Lowetide: DO SOMETHING!
After a fun October and November, the Oilers are slipping down through the Western Conference standings.
Boston Bruins' Milan Lucic Should Be Suspended for Boarding Rinaldo | The Hockey Writers
Paging Brendan Shanahan...
Devils’ Martin Brodeur will know when it’s time to go - NYPOST.com
Larry Brooks sees signs that this may be Martin Brodeur's final season.
The Afterburners: Jets Beat Ducks 5-3 in 'Teemu Night in Winnipeg' - Arctic Ice Hockey
They made it through the hockey game last night in Winnipeg, and the Jets sent the fans home happy.
Sharks win second straight with a 3-2 victory over the Edmonton Oilers - Fear The Fin
Former Predator Ryan Jones was in the mix here, scoring a shorthanded goal and sticking himself in the face to draw a penalty on San Jose.
Detroit Red Wings Game Wrap-Up: No Quarter - Wings Win 8-2 - Winging It In Motown
The Red Wings steamrolled the hapless Kings, who are still waiting for Darryl Sutter to take over behind the bench.
Canucks At Leafs Recap ; The Good Old Hockey Game (5-3W) - Nucks Misconduct
Business as usual as Vancouver topped Toronto.
Game Roy Recap: CAPITALS Visit Denver, Lose to Unknown Western Conference Team 2-1 - Mile High Hockey
The Avalanche are playing better at home of late, taking down Washington last night.
Game 32: Tampa Bay Lightning at Columbus Blue Jackets - Raw Charge
Tampa Bay simply took care of business in Columbus last night, winning 3-2.
ISLANDERS 2, WILD 1 SO | islanderspointblank.com
A road win over the NHL's top team is a fine night's work for the Islanders.
Rangers Vs. Coyotes: Rangers Finish Coyotes Off With Late Goal - Blueshirt Banter
The Rangers deflated the hopes of Coyotes fans in the final moments last night.
And lastly, as found at Puck Daddy, your highlight of the night was that winning goal for the Rangers, which came with just 0.1 seconds left:
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seriously?
Deal for Pronger clone expensive | Courier-Post | courierpostonline.com
Here’s a column from the Flyers’ perspective on their possible interest in Shea Weber or Ryan Suter.
Flyer’s blogger just making sh..crap up about why we are looking to unload Weber. I wonder what he’s smokin? Must be some good stuff. Weber isn’t going to UFA. We don’t NEED to unload anything. And he calls Smithson a “throw-in” for his trade?? What a homer.
hockey connoisseur. t-shirt addict. not famous. nerd.
He’s a newspaper columnist, not a blogger, and it was all based on the “if Poile dangles Weber” notion. This is all speculative, but I thought it interesting to see the view of it from their side.
Managing Editor of On the Forecheck, SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators, and a guy who can help you save money on all things hockey-related at Hockey Gear HQ.
If you keep Weber, and we should, you gotta keep Suter.. The question is whether the club can come up with the money. If they have even the slightest hope of going farther than one round in the playoffs over the next few years, they have to do that.
I don't understand.
If we don’t keep Weber then we don’t have to keep Suter? I just hope we can keep one and I prefer it to be Weber. If we lose both, then it will be devastating to this franchise. I don’t think there is anyway we keep both. I don’t even believe it will come down to money. I think Suter can get us a superstar forward and if it looks like Poile won’t be able to get him signed by the deadline, then I feel you have to move him. It sucks, but we need a legitimate forward and I would rather get something for Suter. I don’t want either one to leave, trust me. It makes me sick to think about, but from a logical stand point, you have to do what is best for the team.
The speculation is interesting, but the deal he proposed seems awfully one-sided. If he thinks that’s an even swap, he’s either grossly underestimating Weber or grossly overestimating the Flyers’ prospects.
Winnipeg Fans
I don’t get some things about Winnipeg. There was a sign in the crowd last night that said “Teemu, we forgive you. Come home.”
Forgive him for what? I also don’t understand why they booed Shane Doan every time he touched the puck when the Coyotes came to town. Can anyone shed a little light on this?
Who knows
Florida fans were booing Olli Jokinen last week when Calgary came in for a game, but he was traded away by the Panthers, it’s not like he ditched them.
Managing Editor of On the Forecheck, SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators, and a guy who can help you save money on all things hockey-related at Hockey Gear HQ.
We cannot sign Weber without Suter.
Weber will only perform well if he is working with his defense partner, Ryan Suter. There is just too much chemistry there to break up. Whenever they do not play together, the defense core is not performing well. Last season, Suter went out with an injury for games. Weber was underachieving and made poor mistakes. He was also a minus instead of a plus during the stretch.
I’m stating this now, if Weber gets signed without Suter, that will be a big mistake. I’d prefer Ryan Suter over Weber if he only had the opportunity to sign one. He would come at a cheaper price, and he has a big underrated impact on the team and Weber.
A Preds fan from Hamilton, Ontario!
Whatever,
He was playing with Bouillon during that stretch. They didn’t work well together. That doesn’t mean anything. Weber’s best season, 2008-2009, was when he played alongside Hamhuis and not Suter. I hate this argument and it gets made a lot.
Weber
is easier to replace with the talent of an elite forward and a bruising shut-down dman, rather than trying to replace Suter’s puck possession, 2-way game, and scoring abilities. I prefer to keep both, but if that is not possible I believe Suter is the more valuable commodity.
hockey connoisseur. t-shirt addict. not famous. nerd.
I think saying his out of his mind is a little strong. There is no doubt Suter is an elite defenseman. At the end of the day, if we can’t have both, we would be just as well off if it was Suter, as long as Weber’s departure would bring heavy duty assets this way, or vice-versa.
This this this!
Thank you. No matter what happens, I’m sure we’ll all be happy in the end, even if it stings a little at first if we have to get rid of one of them.
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
There is really good and there is great. Suter is really good, Weber is great. Suter has a good shot at the HOF, Weber has a good shot to be remembered as one of the top 5 d men who have ever played the game. He is 26 and as long as he is healthy will absolutely dominate this league for the next 10 plus years.
which is why one or both of them will want to go to a team with established scoring and push that team the extra bit to win a cup. I hate to say it but what incentive is there to want to be here long term? Any team is going to pay them, so money isn’t going to be an object. Weber/Suter know if we pay them, that severely handicaps our ability to do anything else.
Ryan Suter is strongly comparable to Nick Lidstrom. His passing, skating, puck possession, ability to elevate those on the ice around him are all qualities you could say about Lidstrom. Weber is a force on the ice, yes, but needs a feeder to make him work. Therefore I argue that Weber is more easily replaced than Suter.
Do I want to keep them both? Yes. Would it kill me to watch either of them in another uniform? Yes. But this is not a perfect world, and if one has to go, I’d prefer Suter.
hockey connoisseur. t-shirt addict. not famous. nerd.
I love how you have backed up your argument that I am out of my mind and Weber is irreplaceable with examples why. That really has convinced me.
hockey connoisseur. t-shirt addict. not famous. nerd.
Just go look at the numbers. Look at their career numbers and you will see who is more like Lidstrom. Weber has as many assists as Weber, so he is a “feeder” too. Weber is tied for the lead in points, assists and goals on the team. Weber is 2nd in goals and points amongst defenseman in the league. Suter’s career high in goals is 8. Weber scored 23, 17, 16, 16 and is on pace for 20 goals again! He is on pace for more than 60 points too. Everyone needs someone feeding them the puck. That’s how goals are scored. Also, Weber has 58 hits, Suter has 21.
Are we done now?
Ever notice how often Weber dishes to Suter in their end once possession is maintained? It’s not quite as simple as who has the higher point total when you are evaluating the overall value of a player, particularly a defenseman, to the team.
by Marcus Newman on Dec 18, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Ever notice how Weber completely dominates and takes over games like he did against Detroit the other night? Ever notice how Weber is a complete game changer and constantly makes great game changing plays like he did vs. St Louis last night? Ever notice how Weber pretty much engineered the come back against Columbus due to his physical play and ability to keep the puck in the zone? Ever notice how we would have been eliminated from the playoffs vs. the Ducks had he not scored that game tying goal in the final seconds?
So, you’re not aware of how good Suter is with the puck?
by Marcus Newman on Dec 19, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
Having played defense, I can tell you right now, a LOT of the value in a defenseman comes in the intangibles… the things that do not, and never will, show up on the score sheet. Such as general puck movement and ability, or holding the offensive zone on a pinch. Suter does a lot of those things EXTREMELY well, but because they don’t go on the score sheet, he doesn’t get as much blatant attention as Weber, who DOES put more things on the score sheet.
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
No, we are not.
Weber career games 434 has 88 goals and 150 assists, +/- 38, hits 434 pp goals 41. pp assists 56.
Suter career games 496 has 36 goals and 177 assists, +/- 39, hits 140, pp goals 11, pp assists 74.
Suter is really good, Weber is great.
It is like you are taking the fact that Weber has an incredible shot and discrediting it by saying he needs someone to feed him the puck. The shot is part of what makes him great. Please, feed it, feed the beast. Keep feeding it. I bet when Ryan Ellis comes up, he will feed it more and better than Suter does. Also, Weber will feed Ellis more cause his shot is ridiculous too.
Would anyone argue that Weber would bring more back in a trade than Suter would? I doubt anyone would, which is why Weber has to be considered the more valued Dman in this league. Weber will also get a bigger contract than Suter will.
Now whether it’s advisable for us to spend maybe 2M more per season on Weber than Suter is another question, but Weber is a game changer (e.g. last Thursday’s game vs. the Wings).
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Dec 18, 2011 10:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I hav a bad feeling the $ is there to sign both but both 6 & 20 want to move on to a potential cup contender. It will seriously hurt the momentum of this franchise.
I hope I am wrong. If we could someday get both to commit to Nashville long term what a statement that would make!
by bandman on Dec 18, 2011 1:26 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I think you hit on the main issue here. Sure, the Preds could find enough room in the payroll to pay both players, but those two will get their money from any number of teams out there. The real question is, do they want to sign here knowing that their respective contracts, along with Rinne’s, will preclude the team from being able to make the needed improvements elsewhere in order to seriously compete for the Cup? The answer seems pretty evident that it would be nearly impossible for this organization to make those improvements with likely 23M tied up in 3 players.
Sure, the owners could suddenly open up the pocketbook and spend over the cap midpoint and bring in the scoring help we need, but if you’re Weber and Suter (and their agents) and you see us sitting just a hair over the cap floor right now, they’re not going to put much faith in any promise that the team will suddenly start spending the big money.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Dec 18, 2011 2:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
WELL SAID
thats why i keep beating the theory that we need to sign suter and trade weber for a scorer. weber has already demonstrated his issues w/ management icing a cup contender. he is also our most valuable asset. trade him at the draft for a scorer that is his, or near his, equal. parise’s name comes up alot here and a sign and trade w/ the devils seems about right.
by predswilrule on Dec 18, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know how many people here saw Selanne when he first came into the league with the Jets, but he skated like he was shot out of a cannon when he got the puck in the neutral zone, you simply couldn’t catch up to him when he darted into the offensive zone and got behind the D. Amazing to think of the numbers he would have put up if not for the knee injuries. Pretty impressive as it is.
That was unbelievable what happened in the Coyotes/Rangers game. I looked at the score on my droid and it said it was going to OT. Losing a game with one tenth of a second left is maddening!
Speaking of that, it’s starting to look like some seperation is happening between the top 8 teams and the bottom 7. Both the Oilers and Coyotes seem to be coming back to where a lot of people thought they would be at and the Kings have just fallen apart (the beating they took last night by the Wings could’ve happened to us if not for Rinne!). Season is still young, but if a team starts to fall 7 or 8 points behind the 8th spot, it’s a tough road to get back into it.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Dec 18, 2011 2:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i still dont believe in the stars either.
by predswilrule on Dec 18, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Raycroft giving up 10 goals in two starts didn’t help their cause. Bachman had a nice 3 game run for them.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Dec 18, 2011 10:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Stars actually remind me of our own team this season. Somehow they score just enough to win and Lehtonen (when healthy) gives them good goaltending.
Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!
by Grizzledbear on Dec 18, 2011 4:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I find it hard to believe we would trade Weber
I think trading Suter is the most probable route if we trade someone. Weber is the guy on the posters, 2nd in Norris voting, wearing the C, and in the all-star game shooting 105mph. HIs national attention level is much higher than Suter’s despite more of an equal value to the team, especially given Suter’s offensive uptick this season. Most importantly, Weber is still a RFA. Suter is an UFA and would be an easier departure on the team’s public relations department. Either way, if we refuse to sign both of them it continues to reinforce the sentiment that we will let our good players walk away when they get a whiff of any outside opportunity. That would be very very hard to take as a fan. I love the Predators, but its definitely harder to follow a team with no willingness to try to win a cup
Maybe....
Well, even if Weber and Suter are going to move on to cup contending teams, I’m just glad Pekka signed. At least somebody likes us. :( …
Blum is coming back...
JonBlum7 Jon Blum
See y’all in Nashville tomorrow!
Boomer hasn’t been playing as well, so he might not be back yet.
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Dirk Hoag is the Forechecker, churner of NHL stats & analysis, and managing editor of On the Forecheck.
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