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Wednesday's notes: HNIC's Elliotte Friedman talks Shea Weber & Ryan Suter

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For those of you who missed the pre-game show yesterday on 102.5 The Game, Elliotte Friedman from Hockey Night In Canada joined us to talk about his recent column regarding the Shea Weber & Ryan Suter situations, and how the uncertainty around their future is affecting the league-wide trade market. He brought some great insight to the table, and in particular, I was surprised to hear that he doesn't believe either player is more "portable" than the other on the trade market, despite Weber's $7.5 million cap hit. If a contender believes there's a chance to land either of these guys, they'll do whatever it takes to make that happen.

You can listen to that segment via the following link (be patient, the audio starts about 17 seconds in):

Elliotte Friedman on 1025 The Game 2011-12-20 (mp3)

And now, on to your morning hockey news!

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Nashville Predators News

Nashville Predators' success proof that UAH hockey can survive - and thrive - in the South | al.com
As the University of Alabama-Huntsville wrestles with the issue of keeping alive its college hockey program, the Preds stand out as a regional leader for how the game can succeed here.

Nashville Predators' Pekka Rinne poised to put up bigger fantasy numbers as season progresses - Fantasy Hockey - ESPN
Tim Kavanagh argues that Pekka Rinne's numbers are likely to improve over the rest of the season.

20 Questions with Scott Ford - JSOnline
The captain of the Milwaukee Admirals shares his most intimate secrets (OK, not really).

Callups Jonathon Blum and Blake Geoffrion try to adjust to NHL speed - The Tennessean
Barry Trotz had some harsh words for Blummer's play on the Ovechkin goal.

Bob Suter goes to the White House - Predators Insider
Ryan's dad has visited the White House before.

Around the Wide Wide World of Hockey

Hurricanes help save Christmas after military family’s gifts stolen - Puck Daddy
Solid stuff here from the Carolina organization.

In today's NHL, slappers have no shot - The Denver Post
Dangerous shots like Shea Weber's are becoming increasingly rare, given the tight-checking nature of the modern NHL.

2012 World Juniors Preview: Team Slovakia - Puck Worlds
Slovakia has been struggling to maintain their level of junior play, as it is easier for many top prospects to simply go play in Canada.

Hockey in Switzerland: NLA, NHL and World Juniors Updates - The Hockey Writers
There's more where Roman Josi came from.

2012 WJC: Is Team Finland the Tournament Darkhorse? - The Hockey Writers
It seems like the Finns are always a tough out, no matter whether at the junior or pro level.

In its year of hockey triumph, Russia lost so much - The Globe and Mail
Russia won the 2011 World Junior tournament with a thrilling comeback against Canada in the final game, but lost two of those players in the Yaroslavl Lokomotiv plane crash.

Looking At Sweden’s World Junior Roster - The Hockey Writers
Here come the Swedes...

Power Play - Shots vs. "Shot Quality" - The Copper & Blue
A good discussion on quantity vs. quality here.

Shot-blocking stats lost on Canucks - Faceoff.com
The interesting bit to me here is towards the end, where some players comment on how wildly inaccurate the real-time stats like hits & giveaways are. I'm not so down on blocked shots, they do a better job with those, but there is tremendous room for improvement by the NHL here.

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A detailed look at the horror which is the Toronto Maple Leafs' penalty kill.

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Michael Bublé is one lucky bastard.

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Martin Havlat Expected To Be Out An "Extended Period of Time"; Benn Ferriero Recalled - Fear The Fin
It was just a hop over the boards which has derailed Havlat's season for the present time.

Is it Time to Believe in the St. Louis Blues? - Puck Drunk Love
Yes, yes it is. The fundamentals speak to a very, very tough team here.

Guy Carbonneau: Habs' coach Randy Cunneyworth needs to learn French - The Globe and Mail
The heat is not going to get turned down any time soon on the interim Canadiens coach.

The NHL's Most Interesting Name: The 1980s Part II - Arctic Ice Hockey
Now we're getting in to familiar territory.

Recap: Caps 4, Predators 1 - Japers' Rink
In Washington, fingers are crossed now that Alexander Semin is on a two-game goal-scoring streak.

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Malkin Enters Tie in Scoring Race - Pens Beat Blackhawks 3-2 - PensBurgh
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Islanders 3*, Jets 2 (*SO): Montoya Hurt; Danish Backhand of Judgment Repeats - Lighthouse Hockey
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Condra nets two as Senators beat Sabres 4-1 - Silver Seven
The Sens took care of business on home ice against their division rival.

Rangers Vs. Devils: Explosive Third Period Pushes Rangers Past Devils - Blueshirt Banter
Marian Gaborik recorded his 600th career point as the Rangers topped New Jersey.

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Suter & Weber

Look this team would be horrible without these two guys, two potential Hall Of Fame type players. They’re only 26 years old! Preds must sign them and pay them. Along with Pekka it gives them a chance to win every night until they find or develop a couple skill forwards.
There isn’t anything out there in return that will make this team better. You just don’t discard or trade these guys period. Ownership claims they have and will spend the money to sign both so we’ll see. Think Devils all those years with Brodeur, Stevens and Niedermayer.
Always competed and won a couple cups with a defense first system led by those three.

by virgil trucks on Dec 21, 2011 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

As it must be pointed out every so often around here, the Devils weren’t a bad offensive team either. 1st in scoring during the 2001 season when they lost in 7 games to the Avs in the Cup finals. Elias, Richter, Sykora, Arnott, Gionta and some other pretty good scorers on those clubs over their Cup years.

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 21, 2011 11:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Holik and Gomez back when they were pretty good

It was not an offensively challenged team. They remind me a lot of the Boston Bruins in the sense that they have a really strong back end with like 3 or 4 solid solid lines.

I currently star in the new MTV3 series,
"Jersey Shore: Lake Erie Edition"
Cleveland Rocks!

by MattBen on Dec 21, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

They had some good offensive years, particularly around the turn of the century, but their bread and butter is always defense and goal-tending. I bet they haven’t been outside of the top 5 in GA more than 5 times in the past 20 years (or however long Brodeur has been around). Offensively they have been all over the map but I would bet mostly middle to lower tier on average.

by Marcus Newman on Dec 21, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Devils

2002 – 2003 Stanley Cup Champs
GF – 216 ranked 14th
GA – 166 ranked 1st
Rob Niedermayer a plus 23
Scott Stevens a plus 18
Marty Brodeur 2.02 gaa
Just using the Devils as a model for the
Preds regarding how you build a team back end first!

by virgil trucks on Dec 21, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Since Brodeur’s first season, the Devils:

average 4th in GA
average 15th in GF

They have ranked in the top 3rd of the league in scoring only 4 times in that period.

They have never ranked outside the top 3rd in defense, and only ranked outside of the top 5 on four occasions (with 5 first place finishes)…

I’m with MattBen (who always makes me think of “Stevedave”) in that they looked a lot like the Bruins of today in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. Loads of balanced scoring with a wicked defense.

Overall though, a very average offensive team. Defensively, however, they were one of the best ever for almost 2 decades straight. They would be hard for anyone to emulate to that degree, but, they are definitely a model that the Preds are trying to follow.

by Marcus Newman on Dec 21, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Where do find this data? Can you plug in parameters and get results?

World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer

by cisar on Dec 21, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

http://www.hockey-reference.com/

I just <crtl+c> and plug into a db or spreadsheet.

by Marcus Newman on Dec 21, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

People do like to pick and chose stats to their liking around here. In the Devils 4 Cup appearences, they ranked 1st in scoring in 00/01, 2nd in 99/00, tied for 12th with a bunch of teams in the shortened 94/95 season and 14th in 02/03. So they did pretty well offensively in their Cup seasons. When they didn’t do as well was when their scoring wasn’t as effective………something to think about! ;)

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 21, 2011 6:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I should add........

that oustside of Chara, who of course is a great Dman, who else on the Bruins back end is all-star caliber? Boychuk is good Dman, certianly not great though. Ference is good too, but not an elite guy either. Hunwick, Corvo and the rest are decent, not elite by any strectch. What the Bruins have is a well balanced lineup top to bottom.

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 21, 2011 6:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Seidenburg works well with Chara. I’d call the rest of thier d corps more gritty than ours. I believe the haslchuks and Tootoos compare favorablly with thier 3-4 line guys and the big difference, imo, is a couple guys who will shoot and a little more size….and more of a killer instinct.

My hockey team is better than your hockey team

by Predator Don on Dec 21, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s actually a good comparison to make between the Bruins D and our own D. The Bruins total cap hit for their 7 Dmen is 17.921M, ours is 15.775M. Considering the Bruins are spending about 10M more on payroll than we are, that’s quite a bigger percentage of our payroll being spent on D as compared to offense than the Bruins allotement of spending. Add in at least the 4M it would take to re-sign both Weber and Suter and we would be spending about 2M more on defense than the best team in the league is. Something to consider when deciding what direction the team should go.

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 21, 2011 11:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You are talking about cherry picking stats?!?!

In what world is averaging 2 stats that represent overall offense and defense over the course of 17 years “picking stats to my liking”. It’s just math, dude.

Point is, the numbers I looked up are broad in scope and representative of the teams overall direction and basic philosophy.

by Marcus Newman on Dec 21, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

It is the successful Devils teams you want to emulate, isn't it?

Yes, the Devils have been a good to great defensive team for many years, but they’ve also fell on their face in the playoffs and even missed the playoffs with that defense because their offense slumped in those seasons. Without the seasons where their offense was productive, no one is talking about them as a successful franchise, just a pesky trapping team that was hard to play against (sound familiar?).

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 21, 2011 9:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It seems that every time this team starts winning again these talks spring up. Are people trying to find some way of getting into our heads to distract the players? Sure seems like it. For all we know both suter and weber could be waiting till the beginning of the year to announce that they both have resigned together

by Shadow23 on Dec 21, 2011 12:21 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

UAH hockey

I live in Huntsville, AL and have been to a few UAH hockey games. I also have season tickets to our SPHL team, the Huntsville Havoc. They are proof that hockey can survive in a small market like Huntsville. They average around 3,000 in attendance. Usually a couple thousand during the week and 3,500 or more on weekends after college football season has ended.

I believe a big part of the problem is the travel model for UAH. They have to travel a long way to find teams to play, whereas the SPHL has a small footprint that allows for less travel. All teams are located fairly closely in the Southeast.

I think the other issue with the UAH hockey program is that there is absolutely no marketing for it locally. I see a few Havoc commercials every night and one of the local news stations has Havoc coverage in the sports news. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen an advertisement for UAH hockey (or basketball for that matter).

The only times I’ve ever seen UAH games are when they play before the Havoc and I just happen to see the weird start times for the game so I check to see if UAH is playing first. You just don’t even know they have a team unless you are actively looking for them.

by RemoWilliams84 on Dec 21, 2011 12:33 PM EST reply actions  

Yep, I’ve been to a ton of Havoc games, but have been to only one UAH game. Marketing for UAH is virtually nonexistent.

by Stormyt on Dec 21, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Elliotte Friedman
Are we a stop over or are we a destination?

I thought this really summed up how many Nashville fans feel in regards to the Suter/Weber situation. It really hit home for me. If DP makes a Suter/Weber trade for young talent or a draft pick, all that does is give the team the opportunity to groom future flight risks. It’s time to secure the team identity.

Online 24/7 at
www.chas-e.net

by Chas-E on Dec 21, 2011 2:12 PM EST reply actions  

Poile is on record as saying if the Predators are in the playoff hunt at the trade deadline neither Suter nor Weber will be traded at that time. To me, that almost guarantees
Suter will be walking. The current makeup of the team is that of a contender for a bottom two playoff spot, nothing more. Bringing in one top-6 forward will not make that much of a difference to a team with a bunch of mediocre forwards who won’t shoot the puck. Suter cashes in no matter where he signs. Playing in Nashville can’t mean more than playing for a bona fide Cup contender. Better to trade him before the deadline to maximize the return, regardless of the team’s playoff position. Trade Weber too. The Preds may own his rights for next year but they can’t take him to arbitration and the offer sheets he will entertain will be insane. Get the maximum return and upgrade the offense instead of trying to win games 1-0 or 2-1.

The truth is neither libelous nor slanderous.
Reason and logic instead of hope and faith.
Pro athletes--it's not what they say, it's what they do.
General managers--it's not what they say, it's what they do.

by shoot the puck on Dec 21, 2011 5:12 PM EST reply actions  

As much as I’d hate to lose either of them, I think your logic is spot on here.

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 22, 2011 12:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Using that logic the team will stink both on defense and on offense.
The league is a defense first approach and scoring is no better than the year prior to the lockout. Bail on Suter and Weber and the Preds will be the worst team no matter who they get in return. On 102.5 this morning Trotz was asked if he wants a scoring forward or another d man and he opted for an experienced d man. Defense first to win.

by virgil trucks on Dec 21, 2011 7:18 PM EST reply actions  

I totally agree Virgil....

Without Suter AND Weber the Preds SUCK! Likewise, Peks numbers would suffer and his $49 mil contract would be wasted. As much as I hated SOB’s stupid penalties, we shouldn’t have let him go. We’re missing that depth of an experianced D-Man. We loose either of the big 2 and the fan back lash can’t be understated. As much as I hate to say this, I would loose ALOT of interest in my favorite team that’s a farm team for the cap teams.

by TSCinSFO on Dec 21, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Sadly…I think we need both a dman and offensive man….

My hockey team is better than your hockey team

by Predator Don on Dec 21, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why we just have to be patient

for Smith, Geoffrion, Wilson, etc to shine and continue to develop and hope Rads comes back (which I think he will). We also HAVE to dump guys that refuse to shoot the puck aka SK(look to pass then turn it over)74. His goal was a beautiful last night, but he’s a liability on the ice with a whopping total of 5 SOG in Nov. We’ve got D-man guys on the 3rd line with more SOG than him on top line. That’s pathetic!

by TSCinSFO on Dec 21, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Why is it that we have to be patient for forward prospects to develop but not Dman prospects? Fact is, our Dman pool is much better than our forward pool of prospects is.

As I pointed out elsewhere, with Weber & Suter receving at least a combined 4M to retain their services here over what their current deals are for, we would be spending 2M more on Dmen salary than the Bruins are. Would be real hard to ever put out a legit Cup team with that much cap space spent on two Dmen and a goalie.

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 21, 2011 11:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Check the GPG leaders in the league.

The top bets to win the Cup are all in or right near the top 10 in GPG. As the saying goes, defense keeps you in games, offense wins them.

If Trotz did indeed make that comment, than that confirms my worst fears about this organization.

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 22, 2011 12:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Say Weber and Suter both decide to stay. Then what? All the Preds will have done is maintain the status quo at a much higher cap hit. The rest of the team is still mediocre, nowhere near a serious Cup contender. What do they do then, saddled with the contracts of so many 2nd tier players in addition to the megabucks contracts of Weber, Suter, and Rinne? It would be bad enough if Weber and/or Suter left, but to allow them to leave without getting anything in return would be insane.

The truth is neither libelous nor slanderous.
Reason and logic instead of hope and faith.
Pro athletes--it's not what they say, it's what they do.
General managers--it's not what they say, it's what they do.

by shoot the puck on Dec 21, 2011 9:03 PM EST reply actions  

I seriously doubt DP would let them walk for nothing if he knows he can't sign them

but the ENTIRE core of this team is Weber and Suter. I would’ve made sure to sign them 1st before that total gamble of a contract with Peks. We lose the dynamic duo and Peks numbers will suffer horribly. All those outside low % SOG will be breakaways like watching penalty shots. And it’s bad enough now that we are getting outshot on most nights 2-1

by TSCinSFO on Dec 21, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

With Weber, Suter and Rinne taking a likely combined cap hit of 22M (at least) to keep here, it would take some, as to now, unparralled spending by ownership to put together 19 other players to complement those three in a Cup contending way.

Defense keeps you in games........offense wins them!

by Grizzledbear on Dec 22, 2011 12:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It’s why we need the development and use of Bridgestone to be high…as it is today. We may never have the revenue stream of some teams because we are a smaller market, but the venues management brings in, which generate revenue, can elevate us to the upper reaches of the salary cap, imho.

So keeping both Weber and Suter is possible and still spend more on players. I don’t believe Peks would have received the contract he did if management wasnt confident the revenue will be there.

And honestly, if we lose one, there will be plenty of opportunity to get players…thru trade or free agency.

My hockey team is better than your hockey team

by Predator Don on Dec 21, 2011 9:29 PM EST reply actions  

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