Is J.P. Dumont on the trade block? Tuesday's notes
by Dirk Hoag on Feb 15, 2011 10:10 AM EST
in Nashville Predators News
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Hot on the heels of Jim Diamond's report on possible Montreal-Nashville trade talks, fans have begun speculating about possible deals between the two teams. Many of these theories involve J.P. Dumont getting traded, based on a few glaringly obvious reasons - his offensive production has plummeted over the last year, his salary ($4 million per season through 2011-12) is among the highest on the team, and of course he's a French-Canadian from Montreal, so there's the homecoming angle at work, too.
But is he really a guy that the Nashville Predators are looking to get rid of?
Follow after the jump as we ponder the question of J.P. Dumont, and then stick around for your morning hockey news...
It's a busy week in Smashville with San Jose coming in Tuesday, Vancouver on Thursday, and Phoenix on Saturday, so take the OTF Discount on Nashville Predators tickets for these, or any other home game!
One of the things I'm finally getting around to is cobbling together my own database of game-by-game NHL data, so here's a look at J.P. Dumont's ice time per game (orange is even-strength, purple is power play) for this season, and the last two. The black lines are 20-game moving averages, to point out the trend:
Notice that while J.P.'s even-strength ice time took a dive in the 2nd half of last season (and continues to decline), his work on the power play has maintained steady around the 2:00 per game mark. If Dumont were truly in deep disfavor with Barry Trotz, I'd expect to see his PP time slashed as well, and/or some games spent watching from the press box as a healthy scratch. But neither of those things have happened, nor have we heard one peep about J.P. acting disgruntled; by all accounts he's a good teammate, and a solid pro.
Could it really be that Coach simply wants to leverage J.P. the best way he can within the overall team concept? His long-standing criticism has been that Dumont has a tendency to become passive, following the play rather than moving his feet and creating it. Limiting his 5-on-5 work would seem to make sense, then, while the power play would still represent an opportunity to leverage J.P.'s offensive skill set without worrying so much about defensive liabilities.
Simply put, I would propose that J.P. Dumont isn't quite as dispensable as many Predators fans seem to think, and when combined with his No Movement clause, it would seem incredibly unlikely for J.P. to moved at this year's Trade Deadline. Impossible? Of course not. But highly, highly unlikely.
While you're reading this morning's news, listen in to Cody Franson's appearance on the Thom Abraham Showfrom yesterday afternoon:
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Comments
If DP manages to trade Dumont, I will name my first born child after him
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 10:31 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Poile will be a strange first name.
by HardCorePredFan316 on Feb 15, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Poile is the middle name… unless its a girl
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Or...
could it be that our powerplay is so awful that we have no choice but to put JP out there? We don’t score on the PP so they usually run the full 2 minutes. I don’t know, just speculating.
If it weren’t for the NT clause, I would sure hope that we were looking to move him. I know he loves Nashville so I don’t like the thought, but gotta think of the team. He’s appeared very lazy for the past few years. And we’ve got Toots and Svatos on their way back… and then perhaps later even O’Reilly maybe as a winger.
JP Trade?
I clicked the article to read it. Once I realized it was a bunch of charts and statistics, I stopped reading. Although I usually love the stats, I assume that these will be used to tell me how “adequate” ol’ Jean Pierre really is. You know what, I don’t really need to waste my time with that. Here’s the quick and dirty on JP: Super nice w/ kids. Pre-Burrows hit he, he was great…Post-Burrows hit, he has been awful. And he probably misses his sweetheart, Arnott. If Poile can trade him, I will dance naked in the streets.
That is all.
Mr. Reynolds, you control the board
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's an over-size hat. It's funny.
"I don't know who this 'J.R. Lind' is." -- George Plaster
Proud inventor of the AMTWBC meme
Integrity oozer
by JRTheByLineGrinder on Feb 15, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
That’s Therapists!!
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
The Pen is Mightier
was always my favorite
There's only two kinds of teams in the NHL: Predators and prey.
I always liked an album cover… or anal bum cover
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Well played
Those skits are some of the very, very best of SNL.
Managing Editor of On the Forecheck, SB Nation's blog covering the Preds. Catch me on Twitter, or join our site on Facebook!
Yeah, why waste your time reading!
It’s so much easier dwelling in your own dimly lit world. By any chance, are you a politician by trade?
by Hockey Hillbilly on Feb 15, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I think I know just the place for you.
"[Weber] shoots like MacInnis, hits like Stevens." - Jeff Marek
by Chris Burton on Feb 15, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry Folks...
As Dirk has pointed out, there could be indicators that Trotz has lost confidence in JP, but they just aren’t that apparent. Trotz has always plyed the nag game with Dumont with varying degrees of success, but the fact remains, the Preds know what JP can bring if he’s placed in the right kind of situation, and with the right linemates, and I for one, believe he’ll play out his contract here.
Davis Poille doesn’t read OtF in order to gauge whether or not to trade a player. If he did, do you think Kevin Kline would still be a Predator? Sheesh. Furthermore, Montreal would be an idiot to take on JP’s contract, given his production.
Nope, I’m afraid we’re stuck with 71, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. And I certainly don’t believe that Trotz or DP think it’s a bad thing either; they just wish they could find a situation in which Dumont could shine once again. And its not out of the realm of possibility that it could be soon.
I can't agree with this...
…Dumont hasn’t played on a decent line in 2 years. How can anybody say he’s not the bastard whippin’ boy of Trtoz? He has ZERO worth to the Preds. If he was a PP specialist or something then I’d agree with you. But he’s not so I don’t.
I think he’s way underutilized, but I’ve thought that for 2 years now. I think it relates to the whole Trotz-is-afraid-of-offense thing. If we could get his salary off the books, that’d be almost as good as getting rid of “some other players.”
Good guy…ZERO VALUE.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 15, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
he does have some things going for him. who else would pass up a wide open shot right in front of the goalie to pass to a teammate who is covered? Just Pass Dumont, thats who.
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Excuses
J.P.’s days as a premium first line guy were an abberation.
There is a reason why he is where he is now, and why he was at best a secondary scoring threat in Buffalo.
His circle by the half boards and pass first schtick works when Arnott and Radulov were burying a (perhaps disproportionately) high percentage of their shots, and he would get the points.
Even this year, the most ice time he has had has been with guys Erat, Hornquist, Wilson and Goc, all of whom are more productive. Don’t use the Quality of linemate argument. Its Dumont who is dragging those guys down.
I will agree with you on one thing: he has no trade value. Playing a guy like Dumont to showcase him doesn’t make since, because that isn’t in the best interests of winning games.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
It's all legit...
…In his first 3 years with the Preds, he got regular shifts on the top lines. That led to him getting 65-72 points in each of those years. After Trotz decided to cast him down from the mountain, his ice time has gone from 18.5 minutes a game to less than 12. And the odd shift with top line players hardly constitutes him as being a member of a good line.
And you can’t say it doesn’t make sense, since nobody has tried it in over 2 years.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 15, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Did someone hack into to SWFP’s account?
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
nope. I can attest to this, he has been sitting at his computer for the past hour trying to come up with that one
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Nah man, I'm just flyin' the flag as usual.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 15, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
65-72 points
3 years out of a guy in his 10th full year.
Dumont got between 35-53 points a year in Buffalo as a secondary scorer.
That’s what he is before his ‘breakout’
That’s what he should be now, and he’s not even that.
Next you will tell me Legwand is a 27 goal, 60 point guy.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Three years in a row Belak...
…then his ice time was cut by 40% and his stats went into the tank. Three years isn’t a flash in the pan…like Leggy’s ONE 27 goal 60 point season. So don’t compare apples and oranges…I don’t fall for that stuff.
He made me bring up Legwand.
I’ve read a lot of your posts DFTB and think you’re pretty astute, but don’t speak in hyperbole cause the facts are the facts.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 15, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
What makes you think
Dumont is really a 70 point player,
when before in Buffalo he was between 35-53?
10 year career. Only three season with above 53 points. Only one with more than 23 goals.
The numbers speak for themselves. You take the strength of his three seasons, and I’ll take the other seven.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
He doesn't have to be a 70 point guy...
…we could use a 60 point guy. And I say he could be that because he did it three years in a row here. Three years in a row. So when you put him on a top line, that’s what he’s capable of. Was he on the first line in Buffalo? I don’t think he was. So you’re cherry picking your stats instead of using the ones that are most relevant, which are the three prior to his “demotion.”
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 15, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
to chime in late
Dumont’s game was always to let someone else carry the puck into the zone, get the puck to him by wrapping it around the boards, and he passes it out to Arnott. He also never really did much on the forecheck, he let Arnott and the other winger take care of that too. So in a Sense i could how his production is a result of his line mates.
But i would like to add that SWFP may the the tail chasing the dog. Dumont’s production, and pretty much the production of the entire geezer line, last year was horrible prior to the trio being split up. after the split up Dumont didn’t really fit on any other line, even now he just doesn’t fit into the fore-checking system trotz uses.
Basically he just doesn’t fit here, and as much as he may love the city, and who could blame him, he may want to explore opportunities elsewhere where he would fit the system.
Exactly
There is a reason the geezer line was split up. They were underperforming. SWFP may call it like it is for Legwand,
but for others he is ignorant of the player’s own fault in their demotion.
Love is blind, I guess.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
He's never been given a chance in the past two years.
And the arguement that he just doesn’t fit in here is hogwash. On the other hand, if you really mean that “he just doesn’t fit into Trotz’s system” then I agree 100%.
And whatever Dumont’s game is, 65-72 pts three years in a row is still 65-72 pts. And if his production is a result of his linemates, then why not put him out there with HornQ and Wilson? Those guys will shoot the puck, and if he only scores 50 in that scenario then 1) its the leading point getter on the team and 2) its way better than the pathetic game of Sullivan, who has reached new depths of crappiness. I like Sully, and he’s been a loyal Pred, but HE SUCKS NOW! I’m sure that Dumont wouldn’t do worse than Sully…I’m absolutely positive.
And I think we should get rid of him ASAP just like all of you do, but I think we should get rid of him because Trotz does not and will not use him as opposed to you all suggesting that he can’t play anymore. Cause nobody knows that, and nobody ever will. Yours and DFTB’s statements are conjectural.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 16, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
whoa there
i never said he couldn’t play anymore. i just don’t think the preds are a good fit for him anymore. this just happens to a few pros when the team they play for doesn’t mesh with their style. doesn’t have anything to do with him or Trotz being bad, they just don’t fit together.
60 points?
When Arnott scored 33 goals and Arnott/Radulov scored 54 goals between them and the team was loaded (Hartnell, Sullivan, Arnott, and Forsberg, at year’s end),
J.P. got his points by diffusion from 06/07-08/09, at regular strength and the power play.
Now, he doesn’t have those kind of guys to finish.
Now, the only guy with that kind of output is Hornquist, which Dumont can’t leech off of, since to find cheap assists he would have to look in the direction of the net.
As a second line in Buffalo, he was a 37-53 point guy.
This his 10th year in the League. 7 of them, now, has been at the 37-53 point level.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't it sound like me?
Telling it like it is as usual?
LOL!
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 15, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
btw
are you saying that a guys line-mates could hold him back offensively?
what if a guy was paired with Ward and Smithson for a couple of years? Would that somewhat justify low offensive numbers? ;)
interesting point
and its true. SWFP got trumped there.
Of course, he could be hypocritical and not apply the standard that he does to Legwand to Dumont, and it wouldn’ t surprise me one bit.
Heading to the game.
Looking fwd to seeing Fisher throw the body and set some screens.
Maybe J.P. might have a SOG or two!
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely it would lower his offensive output, and I've said that for years, so don't pretend like you got me or something
But Leggy doesn’t hustle, he doesn’t go to the hard areas, and he’s not that good at defense either…especially not for 4.5 million a year. And less than 10 goals is laughable, so don’t blame Leggy’s putrid offensive output on Ward and Smithson.
And a coach that is afraid of offense could also hold a guy’s numbers back too.
And you and DFTB need to back off here…I’m not saying that we oughta keep Dumont. I’m just saying that you two know that Dumont is incapable of offense as well as I know that Legwand would play better if his salary were commensurate with other 10 goal/ 40 pt. guys in the league. We just don’t know…………………only unlike you two, I don’t pretend to know either. I’m just saying.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 16, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
calm down dude
why do you always assume i believe i know everything. i know i don’t.
a few things i do know though:
1. it is almost impossible to score goals when there is nobody to set you up with a good pass.
2. smithson and ward are not good passers
3. Legwand has been shutting down the other teams top lines for years now, and doing a good job of it. (ok, so this last one is open to opinion, but the first two would be hard to argue against.)
I don't argue that it reduces his production...
…but to the tune of 11 goals? Dude, even Poile called him out for his lack of productivity. And Trotz did too. So its a FACT that he underproduces, not a rumor. And when you watch him, does he really shut down the other team’s top line? I mean, the way he floats around out there, is he really doing that? Of course he isn’t.
And I’m quite calm…just telling it like it is.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 16, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
for a 20 goal scorer on a good year, being paired with them 2 could drop 9 goals from his season. Poile and Trotz should call him out, it’s their job. just like they should call out Dumont for his lack of production. and when i watch him, he does shutdown the other teams top lines. he is constantly is great positioning and keeps the play to the outside of the slot and along the boards.
or telling it as you see it, just like the rest of us. because you say that you see how things actually are, would imply that you know everything there is to know about the subject. so all you can really do is the same as the rest of us, and just tell it as you see it.
Another
He was playing well
With Mueller and Halischuk
Now in Milwaukee
by OddManRush on Feb 15, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
J.P had the skills
What could possibly have changed?
Big cheap Burrows hit
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
Wait a minute...
…is JP one word or two?
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 15, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
It is syllables, not words.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
You're very.................................
………………………….literary Cisar, very literary.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 15, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
his career path has sort of taken a downward trajectory with that hit, but it didn’t happen immediately. He finished strong that year in the second half, with 31 pts in 36 games (but only 8 goals, which probably reflects some points he ‘earned’ from arnott carrying that line on his back in March).
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree, he was never the same since the hit, regardless of whether or not he continued to get points that year. The change in his game was immediately noticeable, and I remember commenting on it to friends. Coming in to this season, I thought he looked better than ever. He looked very fit and ready to play, like he had put in a lot of time in the off season.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
Coming into the season
Have no idea how he looked in Sept, so I will defer to you there.
But as of early October, its the same ol’ JP.
Personally, I never thought he was a legit #1 RW (like he showed feeding pucks to guys with uncanny and likely overly high shooting percentages). Points were points, but more of the credit belonged with Rads and Arnott.
He was a decent secondary scorer, though, here and in Buff.
Thing is, I think some of expect 25 goals, and 65 points.
He is not that kind of player. I don’t think he ever really was. His big goal year, like Leggy’s, was a fluke. And his assist points depended on the hard work and scoring binges of his linemates.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I just meant I thought this was going to be a great year for him. I was looking forward to it, but it turned out pretty quickly not to be the case.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
Well guys
We can talk about then…but I dont think it matters/ Look at where he is now. He is an overpaid 3rd/4th liner. We need to move him to use his 4 million. It is as simple as that. He is overpaid for what he does. I like JP and have liked him since Buffalo. I think he is a good veteran presence to the young guys. But besides that, would you really miss him if he was gone? I wouldn’t.
Remember we have to sign Shea. And we gotta get some bucks for that somewhere. Bye bye JP.
We get the money for Shea from not resigning Sullivan.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
How bout if we get rid of the three amigos?
That’s $12 million freed up. We could get Crosby and resign Pekka, Weber and Suter!
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Feb 16, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I guess its to easy the transition for Fisher since he had Kovalev that played the same way in Ottawa
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
If it’s true that Dumont is old school East-West type of player and that the game has moved on to North-South type of game, maybe you could get some East-Westers together to school these young North-South whipper-snappers.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
Spacek?
Quote from PredSoda28
Radio show in montreal says they have breaking news and will be interviewing someone from nashville in an hour… spacek a scratch tonight.
Why?
he’s a solid vet presence, but our D isn’t a concern, and he’s a legit top 4 guy, but he’s not that much of an improvement on our second pair.
I would prefer one of the shutdown D men, Hill/Gorges, though both are hurt (gorges for the year, right?).
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t believe in my right mind (or even my wrong mind for that matter) why SOB would be traded – The Pred’s have, IMO, really made an effort to promote number 55, highlighting him in the game programs, email banners, etc. I’ll be very unpleasantly surprised if he’s traded away.
Just to be sure
Spacek is doubtful for Tuesday’s game against Buffalo due to a lower body injury, according to TSN.ca.
If Poile trades for Spacek, you can find me at the bottom of the Cumberland.
#onlykindofjoking
"[Weber] shoots like MacInnis, hits like Stevens." - Jeff Marek
by Chris Burton on Feb 15, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
If we get Spacek
Does he get introduced covered in blood?? Maybe he can put goals in the net with his mind! MAKE THE TRADE!! LOL
If we get Spacek
And they don’t play “Coal Miner’s Daughter” when he scores, I’m jumping in the river with Burton.
"I don't know who this 'J.R. Lind' is." -- George Plaster
Proud inventor of the AMTWBC meme
Integrity oozer
by JRTheByLineGrinder on Feb 15, 2011 1:52 PM EST reply actions
That’ll make 3 of us at least .. Geez, I can’t imagine why Poile would even consider trading ANYONE on teh Pred’s for a 37 year old Defenseman ….
Given Spacek’s injury status it’s highly improbably that he’s the target. I was just quoting someone who heard tease from the radio station and noticed that Spacek was scratched. From what I’m hearing on this station it doesn’t sound as though anything is imminent, but they were frothing at the mouth about possibly getting O’Brien because he’s big, can play defense, and can fight. Let’s face it, after that showing in Boston they could use a fighter.
D
Doubly funny because Sissy Spacek was in ‘The River’ with Mel Gibson
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
Triply funny because “The River” was filmed in East Tennessee and the flood scenes were provided by TVA.
by Hockey Hillbilly on Feb 15, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
glad Diamond is making us sound good! Stupid Tennessean!!
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Started out talking about his article in the Examiner about MON brass being down here for the games this week. Asked who he thought they might be targeting, and he speculated probably O’Brien or Sulzer.
They moved on to talk about how Sergei Kostitsyn has been, and why he’s had success here as opposed to up there. Kudos given to Trotz for pushing the right buttons.
And some general type of questions like how NSH is coming along as a hockey town and the like. My short term memory is failing me a little though. No big bombshells of information though.
Nice turn, Jim
It’s great that Montrealers heard from a Nashvillian with some working knowledge of the game, the league, the team. No real revelations there, but a stand-up interview all the same.
by Hockey Hillbilly on Feb 15, 2011 2:40 PM EST reply actions
I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on J.P.‘s $4million salary and cap hit through next year. But then, I never imagined the Devils would take on Arnott’s salary either. We may not get much for him if Poile is able to move him, but the salary dump alone would make it worthwhile.
The truth is neither libelous nor slanderous.
Arnott
was a one year commitment, coming of a decent year, and a good year.
to expect someone to gamble on Dumont (coming of two poor years), I don’t know about that.
Same reason I think Erat and Leggy are Preds for life.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Feb 15, 2011 3:14 PM EST reply actions
on a side note, I have 3 tickets for Thursdays game. They are $34 tickets I am selling for $20 bucks each. They are front row of 310…. row a seats 21,20, and 19. Right in the middle of the arena.
I'm sent here by the chosen one
AND
as an added bonus free of charge, the seats are right next to the section Cisar sits in. You can hear him yell out such classics as “WWWIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNN!!!!!!!”
I'm sent here by the chosen one
by Creeping Death on Feb 15, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Another possibility is........
Maybe the Habs front office people are here because they have interest in some possible deals with the Sharks and/or the other teams we’re playing this week? Sharks are activley looking for a puck moving Dman with Setoguchi as the trade bait. While it sounds plausible that the Habs would like to get rid of their headache (A.Kostitsyn) and maybe would exchange him for our cap hit headache (Dumont), I really don’t see that happening. I can’t see Poile messing with our D pairings either considering how solid overall they’ve been for us this season.
by Grizzledbear on Feb 15, 2011 6:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If your gonna trade Dumont...
trade him for Ryan O’Reilly.
by predsfan4life88 on Feb 15, 2011 11:27 PM EST reply actions
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