The Predators' Present Run In Context
Einstein's definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. For the sixth time in seven years the Predators will play in the Stanley Cup playoffs with Barry Trotz behind the bench and David Poile upstairs. If the Nashville loses in the first round for the sixth time, would the Predators be insane not to make big changes?
Like many classic stories, hockey has a likable cast of characters, who engage in various high-tension battles to gain some vaunted prize. Naturally, we tally the battles and call the war. But in hockey, the real story often occurs in board rooms, behind locked doors.
David Poile and company got dealt a hell of hand in 2007. Right after the season that saw their team on the precipice of becoming a long-term superpower in the West, they got the directive to blow the whole thing up. Poile had to negotiate a series of signings and trades with virtually no leverage. Nashville lost its leading scorer, its best defenseman, its captain, and one of the decade's best goaltenders. In return, Poile got the privilege of picking at the bottom of the first round and signing complementary players to over-market contracts to meet the cap floor.
For many teams, that kind of ordeal would mean years of misery. It's on the strength of brilliant drafting, clever strategy, and Mitch Korn, the undisputed king of goalie coaches, that the Predators have remained competitive year after year.
And despite the Predators' lack of playoff success, they are the most successful of the nine modern expansion teams. Only the Wild are close to Nashville's .529 points%. The highs haven't been quite what we hoped, but the lows were never that low, or lasting:
I'm not asking you to temper your enthusiasm for these playoffs; I'm going crazy in anticipation of Wednesday. But unless we stop perpetuating this idea that the Predators have been stuck in second gear for 12 seasons, we won't know how to react to whatever successes and failures are ahead.
Predators fans aren't a naturally negative group--we cheer loudest down a goal. When we bemoan five straight first-round exits, we're not blaming anyone. But the disrespect from the rest of the league makes the want to crash the big party desperate. If you're not going to pay attention the Predators, the Predators will make you pay attention (or so we hope).
Sometimes, though, you can do all the right things and still lose. It's easy to see a series of results and infer a bad process post-hoc, to assign a narrative, in which failure was inevitable. The Predators haven't simply been doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. They've been in reach of hockey heaven (you know where the "hockey gods" live), then to hell, and are on the way back.
Maybe they beat the Disney's Los Angeles Mighty DucksTM of Anaheim, maybe they lose. Either way, the core talent is young, the farm system is stocked, and the butts are in the seats. The future is bright, so let's just enjoy the present
...and win the Cup.
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NICE ARTICLE
i would like know what exactly you see that they do different. other than what an injury dictates i really see little change during any of the series of the past, but i confess not to have a great hockey strategy mind so aside from benching/changing lines or d-pairings i likely wouldnt notice. i actually think its a weakness of trotzys style. i do think a new possibility could exist this year. while im not in real favor of throwing sully or o’reilly back in the lineup if they can play, and i mean really play, having the chance to sit an under performer intrigues me.
Side note:
Shea Weber (and a clip of Rinne) is in the playoff preview video on NHL.com: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=559109&navid=DL|NHL|home
"My, my, here's one for the (no) neck. Don't relax, 'cause you're next for the check!"
The future IS bright
and it makes the present all the more enjoyable.
By contrast, one wonders at what point Chicago fans last year, for example, started thinking “Oh s*%$ they better win this year, because they’ve pretty much gone all in”.
This system in Nashville is sustainable, renewable, and only limited (at least currently) by how much money is available for salaries.
The best defense is a good defense.
But they did win it all and are still as good a team as we are. Not as bad a picture as you paint for the Hawks.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 11:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True and false, respectively, as I see it.
They gambled and won, but they barely made the playoffs this year, and I don’t think they should have made it at all. Even if one could argue that they are as good as the Preds this season, they kind of sold the farm, as I hear. Not even the most crazed, drunken Hawks fan would claim that the Hawks’ future is close to as bright as Nashville’s.
They came from the bottom in a hurry, and barring some really, really good moves, they’ll head back there in a hurry.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 11, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
They finished the season with two less points han we did, hardly a wide chasm between us and them. And if you want to talk prospects, Jeremy Morin is currently a better forward prospect than anyone we have. That could change, but it still irks me that we could have taken Morin in the draft but instead took another Dman, Roussell, instead. THAT was a bad move by Poile & Co.
The Hawks have a good young goalie in Crawford, two top young Dmen in Keith and Seabrook and four of the best forwards in the game in Toews, Kane, Hossa & Sharp. Doesn’t sound like to bad of a story to me.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 6:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You didn’t have to cheer for them during the lean years…
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
I’m addressing their future, not their past. Thet did get to a Cup final in ’92 though (got smushed by the Pens, however).
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 7:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
“This system in Nashville is sustainable, renewable, and only limited (at least currently) by how much money is available for salaries.”
Think of how many good to great hockey players we have had to let go because we had no money to pay them? We have supplied a half dozen teams with players that could have taken us way into the playoffs in the last four years. This season, we have been collared with injuries, but in spite of some of our best not being on the ice, we have prevailed. Whether we can prevail in the first round, I don’t know. But I hope the boys give it their best shot.
"I am you, you are me, and we are all together" Beatles
PLEASE don't forget something, folks.
I don’t have time to write a blog today, so consider this my first official OtF Fan Post.
I’m gonna be a little harsh here, so please forgive my tone (and amyinsparta, this is not solely directed at you), but this kind of talk has to stop. It’s a perception that has falsely been perpetuated by outside media forces and has no business being even suggested as fact among those within the Preds fanbase.
ALL of ANY truly ‘good to great hockey players’ that Nashville has allegedly supplied to other teams were lost as a DIRECT result of Leipold’s fire sale. I defy anyone to name a single star — or even potential star player — who left this team because Poile refused to meet his pay demands.
Each and every star player the team shed in the wake of the 2006-07 season: Kariya, Forsberg, Timonen, Hartnell, and ESPECIALLY Vokoun, loved our city and expressed a desire to remain in Nashville.
However, as Sam points out, Poile was under direct orders by Leipold to get rid of or not offer contracts to ALL of them. If you want to find a villain here, it’s the Minnesota Wild owner, not David Poile or the current ownership group.
Others in more recent years, such as Zidlicky and Zannon, basically wore out their welcome with demands to be overpaid for their true worth in the Predators system. That’s as close as it comes to finding ‘great’ players who wanted out. Scotty Nichol, Vern Fiddler and Jed Ortmayer were good role players and great teammates, however they were not worth keeping, given the prospects whose spots in the organization they were blocking. Other than that, who ya gonna name? Adam Hall, fergawdsakes? Dan Ellis? Chris Mason? They were all great guys (well, maybe except Ellis), but they weren’t stars and certainly weren’t better then the players who replaced them.
Even Jason Arnott expressed deep regret in that he knew he needed to go — which he acknowledged publically — and yet has never uttered a single ill word about his time in Nashville since being traded last summer. Money had nothing to do with it — he was still under contract for this season, but how awkward would it have been to have the ‘C’ yanked from him and still be in the lineup? He HAD to go. And even I, as one of his biggest supporters, knew that and accepted it. Could we use him now on the power play? Sure. Would it have been worth it to hold Shea Weber back from his rightful spot as Captain for even one more season? NO, in my and a lot of other’s opinion.
And please don’t mention Dan Hamhuis. His inflated ego has been a bur in Poile’s ass since his first veteran contract; he held out on that and EVERY SINGLE ONE since that he signed with the Preds. Sure they wanted to keep him, but no one with any hockey brains would say he was worth the money Vancouver threw at him.
Scotty Upshall is the only prospect that the Preds have willingly sent packing who then immediately began paying dividends for his new team. But look who we got for him — a future Hall of Famer, Peter Forsberg.
So, see how silly that ‘Nashville can’t hold onto players’ argument sounds when held up to the light?
Here’s the upshot:
Given their success this season DESPITE all the injuries, does anyone NOT believe that the Preds would have been a powerhouse if guys like Lombardi, Bouillon and Goc had been in the lineup the whole year? Injuries are a part of the game, and receiving more than your fair share of them in no way invalidates a system, coaching philosophy, or financial reality of an NHL hockey club.
The Preds don’t need a new coach. They don’t need a new offensive scheme. They need to stay the course, keep fighting, and hopefully get a little luck at some point along the way. It is a very slippery slope to negotiate when changing hockey systems. The Preds were ahead of the curve coming out of the lockout, with their speed and forechecking style; the only thing they’ve not been able to assimilate is the truly talented sniper.
Oh, wait. We had one, but he was a traitor by anyone’s description. AND Radulov was still under contract. He WOULD have been paid; he just wouldn’t play by the rules.
But look what the Preds HAVE built: arguably the league’s best defense and goaltending, all the while remaining competitive and a playoff-quality club.
However, just BEING in a position to draft the great scorers is not something that’s easily done without torpedoing the the level of competitiveness the Preds have maintained over the years — which they HAD to do to keep butts in seats in a fledgling hockey market.
People ask why can’t we get guys like Alex Ovetchkin, or Sidney Crosby, or Jonathan Toews? Here’s why: the difference between Nashville and teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago, et al, is that we have NEVER sucked like they did, or were as bad for as long a period of time as they were, to be eligible to GET the Ovetchkins, Crosbys, and Toews’ of the world come Draft Day. All those players and each of those organizations paid a huge price — willingly or otherwise — to position themselves to receive those transformational types of offensive players; nevermind being lucky enough in the lottery that determines the order in which they pick. THAT is a price, ladies and gentlemen, that Nashville COULD NOT AFFORD to pay. We HAVE to remain mindful of that.
Something else we need to remember? There are a HELLUVA lot of other teams in the league who haven’t had deep playoff-round success. But what most of them do have is an established fanbase.
We just got back from St. Louis, a team who has qualified for ONE playoff round since before the lockout. They have flat out SUCKED folks, yet they have seasons on end of consecutive home sellouts. Why? Is it because their fans are delusional? No, it’s because their fans are GENERATIONAL. They’ve been filling their buildings for three generations since the 1967 expansion. They’re not better fans than we are. They’re better INDOCTRINATED than we are. They have NO STANLEY CUPS —NONE; only ONE trip to the Cup finals in their 43 years of existence, yet the dude with the towel is still at every game, runnin’ down the aisle, trying to whip his mates into a frenzy.
Think about that the next time you grow tired of ‘just making it to the playoffs,’ EVERY. FREAKING. SEASON.
This organization is no longer in danger of being swept away to Canada, or of going broke. We have EVERYTHING as fans to be proud of and to be hopeful for. Again, the pipeline is STOCKED, y’all! This is a GREAT time to be a Nashville Predators fan, regardless of what happens over the next six weeks.
We’ll get to the promised land, soon enough.
by ajinnashville on Apr 11, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
I was…just about to say that. +1 Internets to you…
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 11, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
AJ wins life.
"Nothing." - Tuukka Rask, after being asked what he saw on Shea Weber's game winner in overtime.
by Chris Burton on Apr 11, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoints
Each and every star player the team shed in the wake of the 2006-07 season: Kariya, Forsberg, Timonen, Hartnell, and ESPECIALLY Vokoun, loved our city and expressed a desire to remain in Nashville.
Do you know Poile would have, in even the best environments, ponied up the cash that Philly did for Timonen and Hartnell or STL did for Kariya? They all expressed a desire to stay but for a fair wage (like Hamhuis this year). Truth: Nashville isn’t in a position to pay those kind of salaries to those kind of players. They were all a cut below elite, but wanted topdollar. It was a good decision to part ways, regrettably, since the $$$ no longer made sense (cents?).
Forsberg, when he returned in 2008, limited his choices to teams he played with before. Colorado, Philadelphia. He specifically excluded the Preds, for reasons only he knows. Hardly a strong desire to stay in Nashville.
And please don’t mention Dan Hamhuis . Sure they wanted to keep him, but no one with any hockey brains would say he was worth the money Vancouver threw at him.
Same goes for the other veteran stars you mentioned: Not worth keeping at the price they were going for.
Others in more recent years, such as Zidlicky and Zannon, basically wore out their welcome with demands to be overpaid for their true worth in the Predators system.
Isn’t Zanon better than Bouillion and Klein? Why resign Boullion for 1.3 million when you could have had a better version of the stay at hope, shotblocking, PK D for slightly more?
anyone NOT believe that the Preds would have been a powerhouse if guys like Lombardi, Bouillon and Goc had been in the lineup the whole year?
Buttefly. Flapping of Wings. Without the Lombardi, Oreilly and Goc injuries, no Fisher. He is the best playoff style center we have had in years. Without Bouillon injuries, Klein and SOB and Blum wouldn’t have had their expanded roles (in which they have excelled in).
We are better with Fisher than with three undersized, relatively soft third line (Lombardi is arguably a second line, based on his career year last year) centers. How many third line centers do you want to play with anyway?
Scotty Upshall is the only prospect that the Preds have willingly
Where were you for the whole Jones/Santorelli/Peverely for a 4th round draft pick debate?
There are a HELLUVA lot of other teams in the league who haven’t had deep playoff-round success.
Hellavu lot means what to you? Three, apparently. Atlanta, Columbus, and Nashville have never won four games out of seven. Four if you don’t count the Jets years for the Coyotes, which I imagine is a common interpretation, justified or not. The Jets did win two rounds in the ’Peg, over really good Calgary clubs (Calgary and Edmonton were in their division, and they were stacked to the tune of six Cups and eight Finals appearances from 83-90, and you had to play within your division the first two rounds of the playoffs back then).
However, just BEING in a position to draft the great scorers is not something that’s easily done without torpedoing the the level of competitiveness the Preds have maintained over the years
No. Detroit have hit on high and low round picks for scorers. Ottawa picked Havlat, Alfredsson, Hossa, etc. relatively late when we picked Finley, Legwand, Wilson, Rads relatively early. There are good picks to be had up and down the first round. Maybe Poile hasn’t been as lucky with his F picks as his D picks.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That's really long........
Just one objection: Arnott wanted out due to wanting to go to a team he felt could win the Cup and also having a difference of opinion with management over a few things (his pleas for Poile to get scoring help being one of those things). He didn’t express “deep regret” about needing to go, he really just wanted out.
Just thought I’d point that out.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 6:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Think about that the next time you grow tired of ‘just making it to the playoffs,’ EVERY. FREAKING. SEASON.
Been a fan of Ottawa during their run,
and being especially anti-San Jose during the past few years (because of Nashville ties and being anti-Dany Heatley),
your nucleus is only so good for so cheap for so long in the cap era.
They have NO STANLEY CUPS —NONE; only ONE trip to the Cup finals in their 43 years of existence,
Just for historical accuracy: The Blues qualified for the Finals THREE times. THREE trips to the final. Grain of salt: they did so at a time when one team from the expansion group faced off against one team from the established group. Still, they had to win two rounds to get there, which they did three times in a row, with decent regular season records (they were easily the class of the expansion teams in two of the three years).
And they gave us the bobby orr flying goal, which is more iconic than the Kane Shorthanded Goal/Hossa OT goal after a 5 minute shorthanded kill double whammy.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
But unless we stop perpetuating this idea that the Predators have been stuck in second gear for 12 seasons
Its really up to the Predators.
If they have a good playoff run, or even just win a series, it would indicate that Trotz/Poile can do better than just find success between October and April 10th.
David Poile and company got dealt a hell of hand in 2007.
We made the playoffs 3 out of the next 4 years, with seeds 8, 7, and 5. In the the three appearances prior, we were seeded 8, 4, and 4. Performance wise, we are right where we were before, pretty much.
The purge of 2007 is not an excuse for Poile. Vokoun was thought replaceable by Mason, and Kariya, Hartnell and Timonen were guaranteed to get big dollars, whether from us or elsewhere. Except for Vokoun, not paying top dollar for the other (admittedly good, and in the case of Kariya, declining) players was a GREAT THING for this team.
The only negative was the somewhat resulting need to overpay some players (Bonk, De Vries) short term and lock up Erat and Legwand after career years long term.
The Predators haven’t simply been doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Build a team around D and strong goaltending and frustrate the Keslers for not even trying to score, and having a miserable PP? That has been Predator hockey since post-purge. Even if you think things are different, results need to change.
Trotz has everything that he needs (a solid top six, good team D, goaltending, an opponent with questionable D and goalkeeping) to get out of the first round.
If we make the second round, keep Poile/Trotz, obviously.
But if we flame out early again,
at what point do Poile/Trotz become accountable for not taking these guys further?
Poile made the Stanley Cup final in 1998 in Washington, after being hired in 1982, after numerous first and second round ousters (and upsets).
Do we just wait it out? Suter and Weber and Rinne will be great for a long time, but they are only going to be great AND cheap for a little while longer.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
Actually, Poile was already gone the season the Caps made the Cup finals. But everything else you wrote I pretty much agree with.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 11:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You are right
Poile was dropped in June of 1997, so I guess he wasn’t the GM for the 98 run,
he did do alot to build that team.
In 1990, he made the third round (Wales Finals), which is worth noting.
Outside of that, though, first and second round defeats.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
In Caps land, they admit that Poile was pretty much responsible for the 1998 run.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
I’ve never goetten around to doing this, but I’ve always wanted to see what the Caps roster looked like at the end of Poile’s final season there and what it looked like during their Cup appearence in ’98. Some homework for me tonight…….
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 12:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oates, Juneau, Bondra, and Gonchar
are all holdovers from Poile’s last year.
However the big key was the emergence of Kolzig, the previous year’s backup (Poile and the Caps had invested in Jim Carey the years preceding).
Does Poile deserve credit for Kolzig’s out of nowhere season and career?
How much credit?
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
In the 1995–96 NHL season, Kolzig, drafted by Poile, was brought up to be a backup for Jim Carey and remained the backup when the Capitals acquired Bill Ranford from the Boston Bruins during the 1996–97 NHL season.
For the 1982-83 season, Poile took the reins of a Washington team that had never made the Stanley Cup Playoffs. In his 15 years there, the Capitals advanced to the postseason 14 times. The 1997-98 Capitals, largely comprised of players Poile acquired, advanced to the Stanley Cup Finals. During his 15-year tenure, the Caps compiled a record of 595-454-124 (.559), ranking among the NHL’s top-five teams during that span.
Poile has long been a proponent of a strong developmental system as a means to develop promising young players into productive NHL players. The Predators’ primary developmental affiliate, the American Hockey League’s Milwaukee Admirals, captured the first Calder Cup Championship in franchise history in 2004 and revisited the Calder Cup Finals in 2006. In 2009-10, the Admirals made their eighth consecutive playoff appearance and became the first team in AHL history to post 40-or-more wins and 90-or-more points for a seventh consecutive season. The Admirals have also captured the West Division Title on three occasions, and have accumulated at least 100 points four times, each season with teams made up predominately of Predators prospects.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
I am not sure
how does the Admirals success means anything for the Predators success?
Does Two Calder Cup appearances translate to one first round win? I guess not. How about Three?
In his 15 years there, the Capitals advanced to the postseason 14 times
You realize that consecutive playoff years (see Blues) pre-conference wide seedings meant it was easier to qualify for the playoffs (you just had to be in the top 4 of the Patrick Division), which wasn’t hard, considering the Devils were Mickey Mouse (according to Gretzky) until 1988, The Penguins were equally horrible until 1989, and the Rangers were a 4th-5th seed (in the DIVISION) for most of the eighties? Even after the Rangers and Penguins improved, the Islanders became a joke since 1989.
They were largely playing in a two team division with the Flyers.
Compare GM Poile in Washington to the rescue jobs the GMs did in New Jersey and Pittsburgh, who were equally as laughably bad. GM Poile brought about a consistently good regular season team that failed in spectacular fashion in the playoffs (sound familiar?) when NJ and Pitts went on to 5 cups with the same start point.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Admirals are future Preds. Successful teams there should produce successful players at the next level. A culture of winning is developing, both in Milwaukee and Nashville.
From ‘74-’82, The Caps had six 5th place finishes and two 4th place finishes.
Enter David Poile.
From ‘82-’97, the Caps had one 1st, eight 2nd, and four 3rd place finishes, and advanced past the first round six times.
During his 15-year tenure, the Caps compiled a record of 595-454-124 (.559), ranking among the NHL’s top-five teams during that span.
So, what you are saying, is that there were only, really, 4 teams in the league and everyone else sucked.
You should really just admit that you don’t like Trotz, Poile, or any of our draft picks, especially the late round draft picks Rinne and Hornquist. You should admit that you disagree with the large number of GM’s and pundits who say Nashville is building a franchise the right way.
I have a feeling, if you had a son who won a silver medal in the Olympics, you would just spend the rest of your life telling him what a loser he is for not winning a gold. Even if he just made it to the Olympics, you disown him because he flamed out and didn’t medal.
Do you even buy tickets to see the Preds?
You don’t understand the concept of team if you think Carey, alone, cost the Caps Championships. Win as a team, lose as a team.
I’m glad that the Penguins improved with Lemieux, Coffey, Francis, Jagr, Murphy…
Honestly, I don’t know why you even waste your time.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
Did you watch hockey in 80s?
The Devils and Pens were horrible.
Their GMs did more starting with the same garbage teams that Poile did.
Lemieux and Jagr were great picks. Legwand and Finley? Not so much.
You realize that Coffey, Francis and Murphy were GM moves and not draft picks? Pick up a hockey card. Use that internet thing. Touch the buttons with the letters on them. Search for Larry Murphy. Former Capital actually. Acquired by the Pens in 1990-1991 during the season.
The Pens and Devils had one major advantage: They got to play GM Poile-led teams.
GM Poile, unfortunately, did not.
(Same advantage extended to the Sharks, Blackhawks, and the Red Wings in recent years….imagine how much of a bust the Sharks, Thornton, Marleau, et al, would have been without a few token dominant wins versus the hapless Preds?)
I have a feeling, if you had a son who won a silver medal in the Olympics, you would just spend the rest of your life telling him what a loser he is for not winning a gold.
Do you consider flaming out in the first round ’second best"? If you are going to give the Preds medals for their playoff performances, do you give everybody medals?
You should really just admit that you don’t like Trotz, Poile, or any of our draft picks, especially the late round draft picks Rinne and Hornquist
I think Poile and Trotz has made some mistakes with contracts and ice time commitment to Sullivan, Erat, Legwand, Arnott and Dumont, which after this season we will only have three albatrosses left.
You want to give them a ribbon for what exactly? Making the Sharks look competent before being exposed by a better team? For giving Patrick Kane and Marian Hossa highlight reel moments? For making Marleau look like Gretzky?
Ribbons for everybody!
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said the Pens drafted those guys, merely that they WON with them. I guess your reading comprehension just isn’t up to par.
Use that internet thing. Touch the buttons with the letters on them. Search for Larry Murphy.
Funny. Perhaps you should do a search for LIFE. Maybe you can find one on Amazon and get one. Used.
I guess you don’t buy tickets to the Preds. Me and my wife have had two season tickets from day one. We support what we love. Try it. Just make an investment. Take a chance.
I’m sorry you have never won anything in your life and you can’t be happy. I am sad for you.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
Cisar, comparing the Caps record under DP when he took over vs. what their record was during their 1st 5 or 6 seasons in the league is not an apples to apples comparison. Their first years in the league were a team made up of disgarded players from other teams, draft picks took a few years to make any impact. You’re trying so hard to make your point that you’re disregarding context of what happened at what point in a teams history.
The Caps had some good teams back in the late 80’s and 90’s, but they could never get past their own division foes once the playoffs began. As a Pens fan during those pre-Pred days, I know this to be true.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 8:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So… they got better. That was my point. Even in a league where everybody got in, they did not.
Thanks for the reminder about context,though, I was ten then. Only a casual fan at the time and too young to think about the whole picture.
I love my team. Sure, I get upset when they lose, but even at the end of the first season, at the last game, I stood and clapped and cheered for them like they HAD won a cup. I’m proud of these guys.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
And you have every right to be proud of them. I just have seen a trend in Poile- built teams over the years that makes me a bit skeptical you could say.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 8:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
guess you don’t buy tickets to the Preds.
Because I don’t believe the same things you do?
Your full of it. And you know it.
I’m sorry you have never won anything in your life and you can’t be happy. I am sad for you.
What’s with the personal attacks? Because I believe something different than you?
If you want to feel sorry for some one who has never won anything, stay on topic: feel sorry for Poile and Trotz.
I am sad for your child. Barely in his infancy, and riddled with a “C pluses are dandy/ribbons for mediocrity” attitude father.
Maybe before he becomes a high school dropout, you should enroll him in the Legwand Hockey Camp.
With the passing of the torch, the Preds will have an empty net guru in 2030! Unless you think the ENG is genetically gifted to the chosen few.
Seriously: if you can’t deal with discussing topics with people who feel differently, maybe don’t go to a hockey discussion board.
Just a thought. Are Nascar discussion boards uniform in views?
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 12, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Cisar, you do realize that 16 out of the 21 teams in the league before the expansion of the 90’s made the playoffs I hope? You had to be really bad back then to miss the playoffs, which the Caps were in their first years in the league (believe it was 1975 when they first entered the league). By the time DP took over from his father as the GM, the Caps had gained some level of ability.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
If they you credit GM Poile for building the Caps 'juggernaut'
how much do you credit
a) the 16 out of 21 team (everyone’s invited!) system,
b) the lack of opposition within the Division?
Also,
how do you explain, given the weakness of the five non-Flyers teams,
that the Caps couldn’t get out of their own division in the Playoffs in any Poile year except for 1990 (where they made it with a piss poor record, thanks to the 16/21 system)?
You credit Poile for drafting Kolzig? Fine. How about setting on Carey for a franchise goalie? That in itself cost them some playoff round, donchya think?
Why did the Devils and Pens start with equally as poor non-playoff teams in the early 80s and zoom past the Caps, with their 5 cups and multiple deep playoff years? Does Poile’s improving of the Caps impress you, despite being only the THIRD best improvement (by a huge margin) within the division over the same time?
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you sure?
It doesn’t seem so.
That sport with the race cars, its Nascar, not hockey, you realize.
16 out of 21.
Increases your chances of making the playoffs.
Also the regular season machines (like GM Poile’s caps) got to play cottonballs in the first round.
Even then, there were no guarantees.
Maybe the Preds problem is that they can’t face a team built by Poile in the playoffs?
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the Math lesson.
I’m glad you remembered our conversation from when we met. Nascar? Really?
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
I remember
The ‘feeling sorry’ and ‘getting a life’ type statements seem strongly out of character. Who knows, maybe I met you on a good day.
Relax. I want Nashville to win at least a round. We get to see more hockey. Ottawa gets another pick.
But that doesn’ t mean I have to think David Poile is a genius, Trotz is a guru, Sullivan/Erat/Legwand/Dumont are good for the team, etc. There are a few others who seem to share my distaste, and think with different leadership, or with the Sullys and Dumonts eventual replacement with Halischuks and Geoffrions, we will be better off.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 12, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
They are out of character. You started this with a Nascar comment, proving you do not remember our conversation.
I NEVER said anything directed at your hypothetical son, except as to how you would react to a circumstance in his hypothetical life, something as great as making the Olympics.
My son has Down’s Syndrome. He is five months old. I’m glad you feel it is necessary to attack him.
Asshole.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
There's a system in Nashville,
And it’s working.
It might not work instantly, and it might not work 100% of the way, (What system does?) but I see consistent improvement without sacrificing the future. When the team hits a wall and stops improving, then it’s time to think about changing the system.
However, I can state, as somewhere between a strong informed opinion and objective fact, that the Predators are on the way up. They have not hit that wall yet, and there is simply no reason to believe that the first round is all we can expect.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 11, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You may be right about your opinion of where the Preds are headed, but it’s just speculation either way at this point. As an example, Ryan Jones was penciled in by many in our fanbase as the first line power forward we’ve always lacked and just a year and a half later, he was put on waivers. The point being, you just never really know how draft picks/prospects are going to work out for you (e.g. Darren Haydar).
Poile’s biggest task, one that he hasn’t adequatley addressed over the past 3 seasons (excluding the post fire sale year) is finding a 25-30 goal scorer up front. Despite our good season, we finished 23rd in GPG. We have to do better than that.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 6:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hokay, a couple things…
Goals per game is not a fair way to look at the whole picture, but only half of it. Consider:
1. The Preds finished 9th overall in Goal Differential. Top one-third of the league. Nothing to complain about here.
2. The Preds finished 6th overall in 5-on-5 GF/A. Top one-fifth of the league. Certainly nothing to complain about here. And yes, special teams were average, but not horrendous.
Either one of these two stats means far more than GF by itself, and both paint an excellent or near-dominant picture.
Also, the other side of the coin, which is also only half the story, is that the Preds finished 2nd overall in the league in goals allowed. Bested only by VAN.
3. Best Kostitsyn, by all appearances, is absolutely a 25-30 goal scorer in a full season. Without injuries, and the resulting line juggling and weirdness, Horny is very close to 25, if not 30 on a good year. Couple other guys looked real good (Legwand and Erat post-Fisher trade, for example).Now, I will admit that it is indeed speculation as to where the Preds are headed, I just can’t for the life of me understand what anyone would base negative speculation on, besides perhaps Murphy’s Law. If the positive speculation does not have a solid basis, how much less solid is the basis for the negative speculation?
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 11, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You're ignoring the white elephant in the room.
You can bring out all the stats that you just did all day long, but they in no way invalidate our poor GPG average. You can’t just parse that overall GPG % by saying that our 5 on 5 play is alright, it all makes up the overall picture of our offense.
And we are 23rd in offense WITH SK74 scoring 20+ goals and HornQ hitting 20 himself. Some people made the case that because HornQ scored 30 last year that he would be a lock to get even more this season. It didn’t happen, which is why making rosey projections of what current players or prospects are going to do is a risky venture.
It’s not a matter or positive speculation vs. negative speculation: it’s realistic, objective speculation that is what’s needed.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 10:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it all makes up the overall picture of our offense.
The point I am trying to make is that offense itself is only half of the picture. Looking at the overall picture of the offense is missing the whole picture, just as surely as looking only at individual offensive stats is missing the whole picture.
The number you are left with when you take GF and subtract GA is far, far more important than either GF by itself or GA by itself. I would go so far as to say that
GF or GA, taken without context, has almost no meaning.
Calgary scored 250 goals. St. Lose scored 240. Nashville scored 219. None of those numbers, without context, mean very much at all.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 12, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not telling me anything I didn't already know.....
The whole point is: we have a very good defensive team, or if you will, a very good defensive system with a great goaltender. The area of our overall game that, if improved upon, would put us into the next level is scoring more goals. Only Montreal and the Kings scored less than us out of the 16 playoff teams. We have the defense and goaltending, the area that needs improvement is on offense. This isn’t a difficult thing to figure out.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 12, 2011 7:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Herp derp pancakes.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 12, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that means “you’re right” in English.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 12, 2011 10:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1…haha. Perhaps.
Really, there’s no way to argue that adding offense will improve things. The only way I could/would/do disagree has to do with the fact that Nashville has limited resources, and I’m not convinced such a player can be added without sacrificing something—potentially something of equal or greater value.
That’s the only point on which we disagree, I think.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 12, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we agree on that.
We know who the UFA’s are this summer, what we don’t know is who a guy like Ryan Ellis could net in a deal and who might be available in a trade. I’d like to do better than someone like Upshall, but even he, if he stays healthy like he did this season, would help.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 12, 2011 11:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Great!
Drinks all around…
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 13, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Best Kostitsyn, by all appearances, is absolutely a 25-30 goal scorer in a full season
HornQ is more reliable for 20-25 a year, since he parks in front of the net and generates nearly 250-300 shots a year.
SK74 as you will recall from the countless statements from countless observers, was somewhat fortunate to score on ~20-22% of his shots. Its not negative speculation. Its just not reasonable to expect SK74 to score at that clip going forward.
However, even if he reverts into a 15-20 goal scorer, like HornQ coming down to earth a bit, the team is better off for it.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 12, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I recall, early in the season, numerous comments like:
“SK74’s shot percentage is unsustainable; it’ll come back down to 12-15%, at the highest, by the end of the season”
“SK74 can’t keep scoring at this rate, he’s just getting lucky. He might generate 30 points this season, if we’re lucky”
His shot percentage has not come down, he has not cooled off, and he scores in ways that make me think that he can continue these numbers. He uses his head, he gets really, really open, he centers the puck with people going hard to the net, and he just generally does beautiful things.
And I would agree that Horny is more reliable, but he also isn’t going to come up with an 11-game point streak too often. SK74 shows flashes of brilliance.
He could come down, but I’d be willing to bet a drink here and now: Barring major injuries (say, he has to play in 70+ games), I’d bet Best Kostitsyn reaches 25 goals and 55 points next season.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 12, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
This kind of proves my particular point.....
I agree, SK74 could certainly be a reliable 25 goal man for us, but that only keeps our offense where it currently is, at the bottom 3rd of the league. Where are the additional goals going to come from next season? Certainly not from our minor league system just yet, though Geoffrion could take Ward’s place in the lineup. It would be nice if Lombardi could come back and be who he was last season, but that’s a big if at this point. So where are the additional goals going to come from? It has to be from outside the current players we have. Even a Scottie Upshall would help.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 12, 2011 7:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Right, improvement. All I’m trying to say is that the system is a defensive one, and it may always involve more defense than offense. More offense = good, no argument, but only if it’s not at the expense of defense.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 12, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Adding a capable 25-30 goal scorer to this roster should help our overall system, not hinder it. The more you play with the puck in the other teams zone, the better your defense will be. It’s a win/win situation……
by Grizzledbear on Apr 12, 2011 10:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No argument with that. But how do we get such a player, except by sacrificing something? If such a player can be added without sacrificing a lot (such as Best Kostitsyn), I will jump on that bandwagon and ride it to the very gates of Hell.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 12, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Ellis is my trade bait. I know some are excited about him, but if I can package him for a good forward, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 12, 2011 11:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I disagree on this point......
Saying that the Preds have been a more successful franchise than all the other 9 expansion teams since the early 90’s is a bit off-base, IMO. Anaheim has been to two Cup finals, winning one. Hard to say we’ve been more successful than them based simply on winning percentage over the course of all those franchises histories.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 11:27 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
The regular season point % is helped by the fact that Ottawa, Tampa, San Jose, and Anaheim all played more years in the ‘points were tougher’ era (no freebies for OT losses, and non shootouts to get an extra point for a SKILLZ competition) relative to their total years as a franchise.
Also, in the early years those teams generally were horrid, moreso than the expansion Preds.
When those teams were good, though, they clearly achieved more than the Preds ever have.
Tampa Bay had two good playoff runs including a Cup.
Anaheim has had several deep trips including a Cup.
Ottawa made the playoffs 11 years in a row, with several deep runs in there.
San Jose is in the middle of a similar span.
We are clearly better than Florida (one good run, but no playoffs for a decade+), Atlanta, Columbus, and Minnesota (though their 2003 Final run was impressive).
But that is not enough to say we should settle for just showing up to be a doormat in the first round, Most every other team has made a run (except CLB and ATL).
To say ‘we have a better regular season point %’ than the expansion cousins discounts their playoff success, and ignores our playoff futility.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Also.......
It should be noted that the Sharks, Ducks, Lightning, Panthers and Sens all had to function under the non-salary cap world longer than we’ve had to, thus why their winning % may not be as good as ours over the course of each teams time in the league.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 12:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Twenty years from now
it seems some would be happy to waste away the primes of Weber, Suter, Rinne, Hornqvist, et al, so long as they
are the second coming of the
GM Poile Washington Capitals.
First Church of Poile"Regular Season Juggernauts Deserve Love Too. Who Needs Rings? You only have Ten Fingers. Keep ’em Aerodynamic!
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a person that’s solidly behind Poile and his methods.
I’m also a person that considers anything short of a Cup to be some flavor of failure.
Find me a GM who has demonstrated better ability than Poile to build a team to win a Cup(s), and who is looking for a job, and I’ll gladly send the owners a letter asking them to replace Poile with this individual. A similar promise I will make for Trotz, much as I love him.
I don’t know of any such individuals, however, and until such time as I do, I remain solidly behind Poile.
Not to say you’re wrong if you feel otherwise, but I think I’ve laid out a pretty fair line of reasoning.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 11, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not a matter of should DP stay or should he go.....
It’s a question of whether he can add the missing pieces to our puzzle. I could name few GM’s who I think could possibly do a better job, Shero and the Ducks GM to name a few, but that’s not my focus (at least for now). I’d just like to see DP place more emphasis on scoring.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 11:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Look at other first-time GMS
Do you need an established GM to take this team to a higher level?
First time GMs seem to find success a lot quicker than the 30 years or so that Poile is working on.
Ray Shero was hired from Ottawa in 2006 and the Pens have been a playoff team (and been deep twice, with one Cup) since.
Peter Chiarelli was also hired from Ottawa in 2006 and oversaw the post-Thornton rebuild. Boston started with a bottom feeding team, and after one playoff miss they have had three good years in a row, with two playoff series wins.
And that could be considered disappointing, since their expectations are justifiably higher.
Paul Holmgren in his first full year (2007-2008) made the playoffs and hasn’t looked back, with 5 series wins in 3 years (and one first round defeat to the Pens).
Dave Tallon took two bottom of the barrel years to build the current Blackhawks (one Cup).
Looking back further,
Lou Lamoriello was first time GM in 1987 with the Devils. Three Cups.
Kenny Holland I believe was a first time GM when he took over in 1997. Three Cups.
This year, Niewendyk and Yzerman have led their teams up the standings in their first full years. No promise of playoff success. But I would rather have Stevie Y (the potential for something better) than Poile (nearly 30 years of not getting out of the first or second round, even when the Patrick was weak).
Just because Poile gets a team to the first round doesn’t mean he isn’t replacable. You don’t need ‘demonstrated ability’. Young GMs as first time hires are capable of succeeding when old guard guys fail.
Maybe the answer might already be in the Preds front office. Or an assistant GM or GM in training for the Pens, the Red Wings, the Flyers, the Bruins, the Sharks.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 12, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t look at Poile’s record before he came to Nashville…I think that’s part of why you and I might have different perspectives. Perhaps that’s a mistake, but it’s not like there’s been 30 years of first round exits in Nashville. That would have me hopping mad, believe me.
It’s also really important to remember that different GMs have different situations—I don’t think it’s in any way fair to compare a GM of a team like New Jersey or Detroit or Pittsburgh to a GM in Nashville. Those guys often have far more in the way of money, draft picks, etc.
But maybe you’re right; maybe someone else can do better. I’m not saying that’s out of the question. I’m just wary of this “someone else” as long as it remains an abstract, nonspecific entity, or cannot be measured in some way…I like structure and concreteness.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 12, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair,
One must also look at the whole picture, including things like budget. (I don’t know about the other teams’ budgets, but I do know Nashville has operated with such a small amount of money that is sometimes seems like a miracle they even made it to the playoffs at all some years.)
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 11, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The disparity between expansion teams in those days and what the big markets were spending was HUGE back then. It was very difficult for us pre-lockout, it wasn’t any easier for those teams either.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 10:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The salary cap and socialized hockey
has worked to Nashville’s benefit off the ice.
The playing field has never been more level off the ice.
On the ice, is the problem.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 12, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely...
No way we could be considered more successful than the Ducks. The Cup is all that matters. The Blues had that massive streak of playoff appearances before their current struggles, and I guarantee you they would trade half of those good seasons for a Stanley Cup banner in their rafters.
It's on the strength of brilliant drafting, clever strategy, and Mitch Korn
No, no, and yes.
There are as many playoff busts as there are Suters, Webers, and Rinnes/Lindbacks.
Clever strategy? Clearly we have one that has us up their in ‘regular season pt percentage’, but we have one that has led us to an 8-20 playoff record.
Mitch Korn? totally in agreement.
One thing you didn’t acknowledge? Hitting on retread projects. SK74, Goc, O’Brien, Ward, Bouillion, are guys who are at least useful in their roles, and some who were extraordinary, and at little risk/cost at the time, who were unwanted by their former teams.
You can say that there were many that we missed on, but considering the ‘no risk/cost’ aspect, this has been more relevant to the Preds success than drafting (where we still await our first gamebreaking forward).
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions
I would say ‘hitting on retread projects’ IS clever strategy.
Poile is a brilliant drafter. He has the Preds farm system ranked as the best by many.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
Farm system rankings
since the lockout, the Kings, the Blues, and the Caps have ranked high on farm system rankings, too.
Having a good farm system, and good prospects, doesn’t translate 1-to-1 i having good NHL players or playoff success.
See: our recent set of top six forwards.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
ehh
You may have a point about Trotz, but I’ll always defend the Preds’ draft history. Rinne in the 8th, Weber in the 2nd, Hornqvist in the 7th…those picks are among the best of the decade.
Finley.........
I just couldn’t resist! :D
We’ve made some really good picks but have also missed the mark on some as well. That year where we used a gazillion picks on Dmen left some good forwards on the board that we could have had.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 6:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Add up the hits and misses
and you have a team that plays well enough to get a lower seed, and get beat in the first round, where the fanbase has been entrained to treat a playoff series win as a huge accomplishment (it is, but really, it should have happened already).
Based on that, his drafting is not exactly best of the decade. In fact, the competitiveness is more to do with the scrapheap gems like Ward, Obrien, Bouillion, Goc, SK74, Meuller type contributors via FA or trade.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 11, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
This is an oversimplification
you can just evaluate draft success purely on team performance. And I’m not sure how non-moves like Mueller and Bouillon prove Poile is some kind of free agency genius.
Non moves?
These guys were unwanted by other franchises, given low risk contracts by Poile, and helped stabilize his team. He has missed on his share (the Jonus Andersson Project), but the misses don’t hurt financially and don’t hurt long term like messing up a first round pick.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 12, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not forget that even the storied Blackhawks franchise missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 years between 1997-98,2007-08.
So, my tactic with conservation of apex predators is to get people excited and take them to where they live.
~Steve Irwin
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
Agreed. The Hawks are the poster children
For how to start from scratch with near-intentional, non-intentional underachievement. Bill Wirtz willingly allowed the franchise go to seed in the early-mid 2000s. It was only when they reached their worst that Dale Tallon was able to start plucking the gems like Toews & Kane from super-high draft positions (2 #1’s and #3 in something like four years). But it was only when his son Rocky took over and loosened the purse strings that Tallon was given permission to overpay for all those other contracts and build a juggernaut.
The Preds may never get the chance to experience a 1-2 punch (of being sucky and then throwing a ton of money at players, all withing a few years of each event), but I don’t know that I’d ever want them to.
When the offensive prospects we now have in the system come to the fore, I think a lot of Preds fans and observers are gonna stand up and take notice, and forget all the whining about offense. This team is gonna be good for a long time to come.
by ajinnashville on Apr 11, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s hope that comes to pass. Until it does, people have reason to worry about our offensive production.
by Grizzledbear on Apr 11, 2011 1:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dear Nashville...
Please kick the crap out of the Ducks. Two-thirds of California supports you in this venture.
P.S. It wasn’t personal during 2006 and 2007.
P.P.S. I may be an outsider looking in, but Barry Trotz should stay. I’m saying that from a neutral standpoint and without ulterior motives…. other than to say that I’d be scared of him behind the bench of another Western team.
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
by Mr. K. on Apr 11, 2011 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Happy to oblige; Duck season opens Wednesday…
And ’06 and ’07, meh. I think I speak for many (though not all) when I say that was frustrating, but not taken too personally.
Now, why on earth would Trotz leave? The only black mark against him is failing to win a playoff series; however, all but the SJS series were close, and could have gone either way. Twice an OT goal in Game 5 basically decided the series.
A few vocal fans may bleat about how they want more playoff success, and would be willing to throw Trotz under the bus after another playoff exit—more or less with no thought of what would happen next. However, the majority of Predators fans are embarrassed of this minority, and know better :-)
More importantly, though, Poile is far too smart to let Trotz go. He’s staying in Nashville.
The best defense is a good defense.
by Smashvillain on Apr 11, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Scared of Trotz, Mr. K?
Heck, Trotzy himself says little children are afraid when they see him.
by Hockey Hillbilly on Apr 11, 2011 3:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I love Barry.
I think he’s a fantastic coach. I would be devastated if the Preds got rid of him. I honestly think that’s one of the worst things they could do to the franchise. IMHO, it would not only destroy the team’s morale, but also the city’s morale, and we all know how important the seventh man is!
I agree with so many that believe the future for our Predators looks bright. Lord knows that I, along with everyone else, would love for us to have a deep run in the playoffs. And I’m sure the owners, coaching staff, players, and everyone else in the organization does too. And while it can be frustrating not getting past the first round (YET), I watch a team that always plays their hearts out for their fans. The Preds get so little national attention but they play hard and can hang with any team in the league. And there are more teams in the NHL than not that can’t say that.
We always hear that Trotz does more with less than anyone else. That says a lot. He and Poile have built a team that doesn’t may not have a lot of superstars or household names but they play as a team. They have a very good winning percentage and have been consistently in the mix to at least get into the post season when so many other large market and bigger teams don’t. And while I don’t think it’s too much for us as fans to want a long playoff run, you have to get there first to even have a chance.
So hopefully this is the year. Let’s cheer the boys on in this first series and see what happens. The team and the coaches definitely deserve everything we as fans can give them. I believe in them all and I can’t wait for the entire NHL to start believing in them real soon. GO PREDS!!!

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