According to several sources, the Predators prepared the qualifying offers and sent them off to the...

According to several sources, the Predators prepared the qualifying offers and sent them off to the players by Federal Express at 4 p.m., on deadline day. The only problem is the players did not receive them until the next day. The Predators did not fax the qualifying offers to either the players’ agents or the NHL Players’ Association.

It pains me to link to Ken Campbell at The Hockey News, but this is a new detail we hadn't heard.

Ruh roh.

11 months ago Dirk Hoag 61 comments 0 recs |

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Ken Campbell?

Well, good news then. It’s probably wildly inaccurate.

Defending Big D

by Brad Gardner on Jun 30, 2011 11:26 AM EDT reply actions

I thought all they had to do was just send them out by then?

60% of the time it works every time

by Creeping Death on Jun 30, 2011 11:29 AM EDT reply actions

As I understand it, that’s the question to be decided by the arbitrator. Does sending them satisfy the agreement?

Goaleez R weerd.

by CAustin on Jun 30, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

In his blog...

Josh Cooper asked the right question: Is “tendered” sending the QOs at the appropriate time, or is it the players receiving them before the deadline?

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice...To some people.

by jim bob jones on Jun 30, 2011 11:38 AM EDT reply actions

Wouldn’t “tendered” just mean sent out? I would think that since the NHL got the QO’s ahead of schedule, that if the agents really wanted to find out the information, they could go through the NHL and take a look at the offers. Correct me if I’m wrong.

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions

It is a disputed term. Poile/NHL say it does mean “sent” regardless of the time of receipt, but obviously the agents/NHLPA say it doesn’t.

Goaleez R weerd.

by CAustin on Jun 30, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

To me

I would mean sent out, All the player would have to do is not check the fax or mail until at 5pm Eastern time. Are they supposed to send out reps to hunt them down? However It would of been smart to fax the info to the agents.

by IG-PRED8 on Jun 30, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

at= after

by IG-PRED8 on Jun 30, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Common sense does not equal legalese, unfortunately.

Goaleez R weerd.

by CAustin on Jun 30, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Is a gift a gift until it is received?

What I’m wondering is who raised the issue? I’m betting a player remarked to his agent that he hadn’t received his QO yet. And that agent, who might think his client could get a better contract after becoming a UFA, brought it to the attention to the NHLPA, who began to follow up on things.

If that were the case, which player who got a late QO would most stand to benefit? That part is not hard to determine.

by OddManRush on Jun 30, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Someone on Hockeybuzz made a good conspiracy theory argument about Shea’s former agent Meehan.
They suggest that since Meehan lost Weber, but is still Kostitsyn’s agent, he may be the culprit that blew the whistle to the NHLPA. Interesting concept for getting dropped by Shea, but I find that hard to believe he would hold a grudge against the Preds, unless it was to get SK74 to be a UFA and rake in more money that he was going to lose since he lose Weber as a client.

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, because Meehan is concerned with Sergei Kostitsyn’s million dollars and not Stamkos’s $12 million

Goaleez R weerd.

by CAustin on Jun 30, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Hey..

I said it’s a theory, not a very good one, but a theory nonetheless, you know, kinda like evolution. ;)

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m sorry. I meant to imply that it’s ridiculous to think that Meehan is sitting in a dark room scheming over Kotstitsyn when he’s got muuuuch bigger fish to fry. I don’t mean that your analysis was off, but that the conspiracy hacks at Hockeybuzz are, well, off.

Goaleez R weerd.

by CAustin on Jun 30, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Gotcha...

Thanks for the clarification.

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think it's so far fetched

It’s not like Meehan is ignoring his other clients while he works on Stamkos’ contract. If Kostitsyn were to become UFA in this weak UFA pool he’d probably be a top 10 acquisition.

I heard Kostitsyn rumors from a different source, but it’s still just a rumor. All I’m saying is that it’s very possible that Meehan did raise the issue. If he did it doesn’t mean it was done out of spite either. Just looking out for his client’s (and his) best interests.

by Predaceous on Jun 30, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Undoubtedly, any agent worth his salt would raise this issue for his client. I just seriously doubt that there’s a) any conspiracy involved, and b) that Meehan is so pissed off at the Preds that he’s scheming to screw us over.

Goaleez R weerd.

by CAustin on Jun 30, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

That I agree with. I generally stay out of the tin foil hat aisle at the Conspiracy Market.

by Predaceous on Jun 30, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

It wouldn’t make sense to me that there would be a requirement as to when the players receive them, as that is not under the control of the team. That would leave them liable for any screw-up by Fed Ex, UPS or the post office. My husband once paid for overnight delivery by Fed Ex, and we finally received the documents at 10 pm eight or nine days later. (A Fed Ex guy knocked on the door at 10 pm!)

by LuvthePreds on Jun 30, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

we should just tell the NHLPA to shut the f—— up until they get us Radulov back to honor his contract!

60% of the time it works every time

by Creeping Death on Jun 30, 2011 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs

That's a rec...

Man, you are on a roll

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Or should I say...

Continue to “Ride the Lightning”

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

yes!

60% of the time it works every time

by Creeping Death on Jun 30, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

I notice we are always using only titles from before the self-titled album…and I approve.

World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer

by cisar on Jun 30, 2011 12:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

We don't speak of...

the Black Album or any such albums afterward, except for a couple notable selections from Death Magnetic.
The others can be “Trapped Under Ice” for all I care or even “Fade to Black” out of existence ;)

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Saw them on the And Justice For All tour with The Cult opening. Hell of a show. They were pretty good at Bonnaroo, too, but still pissed at Lars, so…

World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer

by cisar on Jun 30, 2011 5:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I was there too!

It was the day before my first day of high school. What a great show.

by Tim P on Jun 30, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, as an attorney, I can say....

that “tendered” means…well….nothing. Of all of the words/terms regualarly used in writing contracts, you never see “tendered” used, so its really tough to define. I’m actually schocked that “tendered” is a word that was used in the first place, since CBA’s and contracts are gone over with a fine-toothed comb to make sure all of the definitions are in place. In fact, MOST laws and contracts have a seperate section devoted to definition of words—like “us,” “we,” etc. There should’ve been a definition for “tendered.”

With that said, i think “tendered” means “made,” as in: when the offer is “offered,” not accepted or recieved. But that’s just me.

by turd-ferguson on Jun 30, 2011 11:51 AM EDT reply actions

I am hopeful that this indicates that the team has a chance of having these QOs hold up. Hopeful.

They certainly seem to have an argument to present the arbitrator.

Goaleez R weerd.

by CAustin on Jun 30, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

You...

go and make it known. I like your definition, so get on the phone with Fehr and fix this mess, pronto.

Thanks,
PredNation

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm on top of it!!!!

(ahem, where do I send the bill afterwards?)

by turd-ferguson on Jun 30, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Dirk Hoag@

ontheforecheck.com or he will barter some hockey equipment. Haha

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

So are you a lawyer at Ferguson, Ferguson and Ferguson?

World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer

by cisar on Jun 30, 2011 12:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

No....

Turd & Associates. We’re an reorganization from the firm of Dewey, Stickum & Howe [ba-room chi!]

by turd-ferguson on Jun 30, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

BUT, what about the language specifying manner of delivery?

Exhibit 3(?) of the CBA specifies that during the season, delivery is actually hand delivering the offer. In the off season, Clubs must use overnight courier. Now, if tender = hand deliver in the off season too, that langague doesn’t make any sense, does it? I think poile’s ultimately got the better of the argument here.

by gray000 on Jun 30, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Let’s hope so.

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Better yet, let's hope

that the arbitrator is as smart as I am. ;)

by gray000 on Jun 30, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions

ALSO, what about the language specifying where the contract goes?

CBA says player designates an address for off-season offers, and if there is none, then the team can send it to his last known address. Player can designate his agent if he wants, but teams can’t fulfill it by just sending to the agent. This is less persuasive, but consistent with the idea that it’s not necessary to get it in the player’s hand. Mmmaybe.
I read that the NHL explained that the NHLPA has been OK with offers sent before the deadline in the past, but the NHLPA responded that never before had the club not also faxed them. Nothing about faxes being acceptable in the CBA.

by gray000 on Jun 30, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually I quoted language from the CBA about faxes being acceptable in certain situations here.

Managing Editor of On the Forecheck, SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators, and HockeyGearHQ, a site devoted to news, reviews, and deals on hockey equipment and accessories. Catch me on Twitter, or join OTF on Facebook!

by Dirk Hoag on Jun 30, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Point taken. Thanks Dirk.

You think the NHLPA’s position is that for QO’s, “no method of service is specified in the agreement?”

by gray000 on Jun 30, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Any word on a time for said meeting to discuss this issue?

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions

they sent a fax to the front office of the meeting time, but it was after 5 so I don’t think it counts

60% of the time it works every time

by Creeping Death on Jun 30, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

Epic…wow I’ll have what you’re having. You really “Fight fire with fire”

by HardCorePredFan316 on Jun 30, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions

He’s not afraid to Jump In The Fire.

World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer

by cisar on Jun 30, 2011 12:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I just Seek and Destroy

60% of the time it works every time

by Creeping Death on Jun 30, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions

on PHT Yerdon said sometime today.

Goaleez R weerd.

by CAustin on Jun 30, 2011 11:56 AM EDT reply actions

My question is????

Why the hell did they wait to the last second to “tender” the offers? They probably had them ready to be sent out before then. I’d rather be on the safe side and send them out a day early.

by SFPredsFan on Jun 30, 2011 12:19 PM EDT reply actions

THIS

I’m a Flyers fan and sometime lurker here. I like the Preds, think Trotz is a genius, go to a couple of games, root for them whenever they are not playing the Flyers. I agree that “probably” the Preds are ok.

But this is a serious mess-up. Brain cramp. Why even tempt fate? Even the Flyers management (not always rocket scientists in my opinion) did this several days before the deadline.

In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.

by Bud in TN on Jun 30, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

So an arbitrator is gonna rule on ambigious language in a poorly written agreement. Great.

The NHL has a problem. They need to clarify the language…..Right after we get screwed.

by Predator Don on Jun 30, 2011 12:40 PM EDT reply actions

just like the transfer rule with the khl

by predswilrule on Jun 30, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

ruling

Since free agency starts tomorrow, I wonder if these players negotiate with other teams assuming they are unrestricted? or if they will have a ruling prior to the opening of free agency??

by Shawn Kehoe on Jun 30, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions

I think everyone has to wait.

But, I wonder if having the RFA’s shielded during the first part of the FA gold rush will help or hurt the Preds?

by gray000 on Jun 30, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions

it would have to help as everyone else is going to rush to fill needs with the best available.

by Shawn Kehoe on Jun 30, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Flip side is, all the FA losers are DESPERATE. It’s kind of like not even going out until 12:30, when everyone’s already drunk. What if FL’s still under cap at that point?

by gray000 on Jun 30, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions

we trade them David Legwand and Martin Erat for their next two first rounders and resign Goc ;-)

by Shawn Kehoe on Jun 30, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Flip side is, all the FA losers are DESPERATE. It’s kind of like not even going out until 12:30, when everyone’s already drunk. What if FL’s still under cap at that point?

by gray000 on Jun 30, 2011 2:25 PM EDT reply actions

Oh, is THAT how reply works? Ok, got it now.

by gray000 on Jun 30, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

From the CBA

Exhibit 3
CBA Notices

During the Playing Season, a Player shall receive
notice(s) from his Club via hand delivery. From the
day after the conclusion of a Player’s Playing Season
until the commencement of the Player’s subsequent
Playing Season, notice(s) shall be sent via overnight
delivery to the Player’s off-season address which the
Player provides to the Club, and if no such address is
provided by the Player, the notice(s) shall be sent via
overnight delivery to the Player’s last known address.

Sec. 10.2-b-ii

In order to receive a Right of First Refusal or Draft Choice
Compensation (at the Prior Club’s option) with respect to a
Restricted Free Agent, the Prior Club of a Restricted Free Agent
must tender to the Player, no later than 5:00 p.m. New York time
on the later of June 25 or the first Monday after the Entry Draft of
the final year of the Player’s SPC, a “Qualifying Offer”, which
shall be an offer of an SPC, for one League Year, which is subject
to salary arbitration if such Player is otherwise eligible for salary
arbitration in accordance with Section 12.1

From Merriam-Webster

Definition of TENDER
transitive verb
1
: to make a tender of
2
: to present for acceptance : offer
intransitive verb
: to make a bid or tender

Seems to me if the qo’s were correctly completed and on their way to the players by the specified deadline the Predators have nothing to worry about. Have we heard the specific allegations of impropriety?

The truth is neither libelous nor slanderous.
Reason and logic instead of hope and faith.

by shoot the puck on Jun 30, 2011 3:09 PM EDT reply actions