Thursday's notes: What makes a Stanley Cup contender?
by Dirk Hoag on Feb 16, 2012 7:56 AM EST
in Nashville Predators News
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PrintWhat defines a real Stanley Cup contender?
This morning's notes bring that question to mind, because the word "contender" can imply a team which is one of the very strongest in the hunt, or merely one which has a chance like everyone else. Edmonton's run to the 2006 Stanley Cup Final is often cited as evidence that if a team can get into the playoffs, anything can really happen.
So what does the word "contender" mean to you, and do the Nashville Predators, as constituted now, meet that description?
Ponder that while taking in your morning jolt of hockey goodness...
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Its the one thing I dont like about our sport
A goaltender that gets on a hot streak masks every other shortcoming a team may have. Carolina with Ward, Edmonton with Roloson, the Ducks with Giguere, the list goes on and on.
Conversely, teams that should have a few Cups by now dont (San Jose, Vancouver) because of shaky goaltending once the playoffs start.
Luckily for us, we should be set for the next 7 years to at least be in the conversation.
Balance
A true contender need a balance of upper tier talent at Forward, Defense, and Goaltending. A true contender had the ability to keep the puck away from their own goal, and the ability to deposit the puck when necessary.
As for the preds, I would say the 5 on 5 goals for/against is an indicator that they aren’t in contender levels yet.
Keys to the game: GA<GF
The Predlines Story was interesting
Brad Boyes from Buffolo could be a good idea. Next Kostitsin?
by Preds of State on Feb 16, 2012 10:32 AM EST reply actions
Be sure to leave a comment over there
I’m sure he’d appreciate getting your feedback.
Managing Editor of On the Forecheck, SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators, and a guy who can help you save money on all things hockey-related at Hockey Gear HQ.
I'm extremely impressed with Ryan Thang.
He is really, really well spoken! If you had told me that I hockey player spit THIS out, I’m not sure I would have believed you…
Although he committed some terrible actions away from golf that I don’t condone, from a strict athletes perspective I think that what Tiger Woods did for the sport of golf, and the dedication he had to the game even from when he was a young athlete is really remarkable.
Dang, Thang! Well done.
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
Isn't he the guy with the BS in Physics?
Us Physics types are the bees-knees.
We'll miss you Belak...
Go Predators!
I think that's Kyle Wilson
Managing Editor of On the Forecheck, SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators, and a guy who can help you save money on all things hockey-related at Hockey Gear HQ.
Oh, and Brad Marchand is a piece of crap.
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
*little piece of crap
60% of the time it works every time
by Creeping Death on Feb 16, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I love that guy. He’s like 30 grit sandpaper, even if he does probably need a sitdwon with the ShannaHammer.
Admittedly, his “likeability” is probably about equal to that of the Tootoo/Downie/Burrows types, even without the dirty hits.
by Marcus Newman on Feb 16, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
The Kevin Smith clip at the game the other night got me thinking about Goon.
Trailer Here!
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
Lowbrow + hockey? It’s like they filmed this just for me.
by Marcus Newman on Feb 16, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
The Cup
is won by one team out of thirty. It is rarely won by the President’s Trophy recipient so your odds of “contending” each year are below average no matter how you cut it. …and are talking contender today, or contender 6 weeks ago? The first rule in contention to me is that it is totally dynamic. If you listen to TSN and the NHL network, only large market/O6 teams are contenders…regardless of how many consecutive years of failure or mismanagement a team like NYR or CHI can string together. All it takes it one year, but because of media attention, that year shines more for a market like Chicago for example than teams like TBL, ANA, or CAR.
I think your defense makes you a contender, with your goalie being the most important factor. In the early 80’s, when there was very little balance in the league and the talent could be pooled pretty easily, teams were able to become dynasties. I think that era is extinct, and I don’t mind it at all. Dynasties like that don’t do a whole lot for the league overall, IMHO. Now, it takes a team effort…like Boston/Vancouver last year. 3-4 good lines, an elite goaltending effort, and mostly…a little mojo.
Was Ottawa, Carolina, Anaheim, Tampa, Edmonton, Dallas, Buffalo, Calgary etc. a “contender” in October of the year they made it to the finals? Is Philly really a contender any more than Nashville? Do guys like the Sedin ladies make you a Cup contender, or is it a guy like Marchand?
Honestly, I think there are about 10 teams that are “contenders” most years, outside of the exceptions like the 07’ Oil. A bad matchup (see 07’ Preds vs. Sharks or 11’ Nucks v Hawks, etc.) can take you out of contention pretty quick. Think about it, one lucky bounce for Chicago in April and Vancouver never gets a sniff of the finals. Limiting “contention” to the February2012 version of the Rangers/Wings/Nucks is silly to me because the statistical chance of one of those teams hoising the Cup is just not very high. I will say that I think a few bounces the right or wrong way are more likely to send a team into or out of contention than to send a well managed organization into a 30 year hiatus from being competetive (that’s right Detroit, I was around in the 70’s and 80’s).
"It is totally dynamic..."
Spot on, brother. There’s a good and valid reason for respecting the Hockey Gods. From my perspective, last year’s President’s Trophy winners went to the Cup finals with skill, yes, but also the benefit of a ton of happy circumstances for them, beginning with a division that presented no obstacle to the finals. And then? Does anyone remember Kesler’s “chicken wing” penalty drawn on Weber and the game-winning power play goal that resulted? The only sensible approach is to establish a solid system, train the best players available to play within it, give it the best shot you’ve got and then respect the unseen forces at work. Sometimes lightning strikes. Ask Jeremy Lin. By the way, we have very unpredictable spring weather here in Middle Tennessee.
by Hockey Hillbilly on Feb 16, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
The damn kesler wing. I was about as furious as I can get watching a game. You could see it coming after that.
Don’t forget one Erat to Kane pass in 2010…. That kind of stuff either happens “to you” or “for you” and it makes a hell of a lot more difference than adding Thomas Kaberle at the deadline.
by Marcus Newman on Feb 16, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
I saw about 20 beer containers thrown unto the ice after the pp goal was scored in the ‘ChickenWingGate’ game. We were all pissed, that was a terrible call. Nucks seemed to be heavily favored by the hockey gods up until the finals.
by JBoogie22 on Feb 16, 2012 1:01 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
The hockey Gods are heavily in favor of karma, also.
Keeps the balance.
We'll miss you Belak...
Go Predators!
It’s always the ‘hockey gods’. Is there a monotheistic sect of this hockey religion? Does anyone ever speak of ‘the hockey God’?
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
think of it as greek mythology
Pekka would be under the hockey god of goaltending. You have a god or gods for each position plus coaches and goals and penalties. We seriously need to go throung and fing the guy to match each one. Boom boom geoffrion god of the slap shot? The Great One god of goals?
by Shadow23 on Feb 16, 2012 5:49 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Gretzky must be one of those Leda and the Swan type of things.
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
Lebda and the Swan
"We want to keep beating them...to break their pride and break their season...is a huge thing for us." - David Legwand
Hmm...
Isn’t that story/poem (whatever) about rape?? I guess including using L-3bda in the title is then, in a sense, inappropriately appropriate…
Hands go uuppp..... AND THEY STAY THERE!
-nashvillepredators-
are we going to see anymore of those trade target posts
by JBoogie22 on Feb 16, 2012 12:21 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Just posted one
http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2012/2/16/2802447/nashville-predators-trade-deadline-2012-pavel-kubina
If there are ideas out there for other players, I’m all ears.
Managing Editor of On the Forecheck, SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators, and a guy who can help you save money on all things hockey-related at Hockey Gear HQ.
gnashvvegas
honey badger is a truly nice, down to earth, and happy to be here guy. josi is funny. marty is about to be a dad. klein is great fun.
don't hate the 8
sweet so we can have marty parties for another generation
Go ahead and draft him now!
by JBoogie22 on Feb 16, 2012 1:03 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Ribiero is good, but we're deep at center
Ribiero is a solid player, but I’d rather have a big bodied winger to take some pressure off of Hornqvist. I like Hornqvist too, but in all honesty he’s a great third line guy that can be dangerous and disruptive. He doesn’t have great speed nor is he really threatening in open ice- he has solid skills around the net though, and can obviously be a pain in the neck. I’d rather have him play a couple minutes less a night with more energy (like Halischuk and Bourque are doing now) and really emphasize the agitating phase of his game. I’d love a guy like Ryan Malone to really give us a power forward that can skate with anyone and bring some physicality. He has an extremely reasonable contract the next 3 years- 3mil/2.5/2.5- and has a boatload of playoff experience to boot. Send TB Lindback/prospect or pick with Roloson/Malone coming back to us. Roloson’s deal is up this year and again, he has significant playoff experience he can offer Pekka- just about the only thing that he lacks.
Who is going to be our backup if we trade Lindback? Have you noticed our minor league goalies aren’t having too much success lately.
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
No kidding. Having that Hellberg round in the chamber is looking like a pretty solid plan right now.
Hornvqist is a third line guy? Disagree. Maybe on a couple of teams but the guy brings some ability that no one else on the team has either. He isn’t just mucking it up out there. That guys has some serious hands.
by Marcus Newman on Feb 16, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I said he’s a great 3rd line guy at even strength, meaning he can step into a top 6 role, but he doesn’t have the open ice skating ability to really be a 2nd line stalwart. He’s a good power play guy, and yes, he has great hands around the net as I said. But I’d rather have him emphasizing energy and agitation near the net where hes really at his best. Its not like he’s scoring alot of goals from the high slot with laser shots or backing defensemen off with quick feet. By agitation I don’t mean Tootoo 2 years ago, I mean facewashes and garbage goals. He’s similar to Holmstrom, who has never really been an absolute 2nd liner.
And as for the backup, thats why I included Roloson to come back to us. We can always find a veteran backup or call up Smith during the offseason for next year.
i agree with everything you just said
well put. good trade rationale. I like.
hockey connoisseur. t-shirt addict. not famous. nerd.
Sorry, I completely disagree with your take on Horny. He is great on the power play because of his strength around the net and in the corners. He is just as effective 5 on 5 for the same reasons and puts up most of his points as such. In fact a lot of the goals he is plays a part in he never gets so much as an assist for. In fact, I think that if there is one player, other than the big three that allowed us to recover so quickly after the 07 fire sale, it was #27.
Its not like he’s scoring alot of goals from the high slot with laser shots or backing defensemen off with quick feet
I wouldn’t call him slow (I bet he is as fast or faster than Ryan Malone) but he is strong enough on the puck that he doesn’t have to outrace defensemen to be effective. He never “backs the defense off” but he consistently causes it to collapse in. Something almost no other Preds forward can effectively do. …and I’ve see him bang in a few around the crease but he gets as many or more goals in the slot or cross-ice as anyone, other than SK maybe. Until we pick up a true power forward, he is a lock as a top 6 because he has a skill set that is unlike any other forward on our team. He is exactly the kind of guy that really allows other player to be effective. Even if we do pick up another top 6 it would be hard to name 5 other current forwards that definitively belong above him on the roster.
To each his own though.
by Marcus Newman on Feb 16, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
In NHL 12 terms, he has a high speed, but average acceleration and agility. He doesn’t really have offensive moves, but has some pretty nifty defensive and loose puck moves.
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
This made ma laugh pretty hard. :)
by Marcus Newman on Feb 16, 2012 6:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I don’t want to make it sound like I don’t value Hornqvist- he’s scored more PPG the past 3 years for us than any other player, and doesn’t get credit for alot of his PP worth just like you say- but I also don’t think he’ll be a 5 on 5 2nd line player for us if we acquire a scoring winger. We’d have 74-12-10, 33-11-winger, then 27-15-whoever(I’d like 57). Being a 3rd line guy doesn’t translate to not having skill, he just isn’t one of our 4 best even strength wingers. He’d definitely be on the PP regardless. He may not be significantly slower than Malone (I have no idea how they compare in that measure), but Malone has an extra 4inches and 30lbs so I’m sure Hornqvist would have problems being as solid on his skates as Malone or any big bodied winger- its a physics thing, not a skill thing. I agree that he’s a top 6 guy until we get a power forward, but thats what I’m suggesting- acquiring a big power forward like Malone or Clowe (which will never, ever happen but e.g.)
I vote Malone
love that guy
hockey connoisseur. t-shirt addict. not famous. nerd.
by Shawn Kehoe on Feb 16, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Roloson...
Has a boatload of experience because he’s 42 years old.
He also plays like he’s 42 years old – .881 save percentage, 3.62 GAA.
If Pekka goes down, you can kiss the season goodbye.
The same can be said for every team outside of Vancouver and mayyyybe Los Angeles. No team is going to feel good about their chances if their Venzina finalist starting goalie that just got a $7mil/yr deal gets hurt. Clearly our own team thinks there is a significant dropoff to Lindback or he’d play more. Once the playoff start Rinne will be playing every game. We only need a backup to play a few games down the stretch to let him rest.
SJ is never going to put him on the block
But i would so like to see Clowe in preds gold
by JBoogie22 on Feb 16, 2012 1:04 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
a contender is one that gets into the playoffs, goes at least to the second round, doesn’t commit stupid penalties, and can score more points than the other team four games out of seven. HOW they do that is not my expertise. I don’t care. JUST DO IT!!!!!!! That being said, our boys have to step up their game if they want to do all that. We have the horses if they want to run. If they don’t want to run, then back to the barn we go!
"I am you, you are me, and we are all together" Beatles
From TSN
The Latest on Nash
Aaron Portzline of the Columbus Dispatch reports that he believes that are five teams on Rick Nash’s approval list: the Boston Bruins, the Los Angeles Kings, The New York Rangers, the San Jose Sharks and the Toronto Maple Leafs.
While the Jackets would ask each club for a different return, the team reportedly wants a young roster player, along with some combination of high-end prospects and draft picks.
No Bueno :(
hockey connoisseur. t-shirt addict. not famous. nerd.
So this guy BELIEVES that there are five teams.
Well, that is good enough for me!
World Wide Weber.
There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
~Joe Strummer
(e5)
"We want to keep beating them...to break their pride and break their season...is a huge thing for us." - David Legwand
hey
that’s akin to Josh Cooper tweeting out something involving the Predators. It holds more water than say, cellblock303.com floating out what they believe.
Plus I didn’t believe we’d be on Nash’s short list anyway, so it supports my belief.
And with everything else I’ve read, the national media backlash about Howson “listening” to offers for Nash is probably going to cost him his job and Nash to stay put. It’s the smelling salts that woke the owners up from their stupor.
hockey connoisseur. t-shirt addict. not famous. nerd.
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